Need ID and treatment plan for these nuisances!

[vetteguy53081]

So hard to know what to do. Others have suggested entirely different courses of action. Why do a water change when I have zero nutrients? I believe mine are prorocentrum (sp) if that makes a difference.

You want to siphon as much of it up as possible. It wont go away on its own. Been doing this method close toa decade and countless people who were grateful

 

[TWYOUNG]

You want to siphon as much of it up as possible. It wont go away on its own. Been doing this method close toa decade and countless people who were grateful

I've seen primarily two lines of approach. Dose sodium silicate to boost diatom competition, phyto and pods. Vacuuming is discouraged because it removes the good stuff with the bad, (bacteria & pods). The other method, which appears to be what you're advocating, is to dose H2O2, ( not sure what this does but sounds dangerous to me ), vacuum, ( I've expressed my concerns with this although I'd love to get it out of there quick ), and water change with the vacuuming. I don't really understand why I'd need a water change with 0.0 nutrients. I assume in either approach I would need to find a way to boost my nutrient levels? Some suggest cutting off lighting while others do not. Finally I've seen it suggested I need to add carbon to my filtration due to the release of toxins by dying dinos. Not sure my Tangs would benefit from that. I'd welcome your thoughts on what I've said here. I'm not picking a side I'm only trying to decide whats best for my tank. Thanks for the help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've seen primarily two lines of approach. Dose sodium silicate to boost diatom competition, phyto and pods. Vacuuming is discouraged because it removes the good stuff with the bad, (bacteria & pods). The other method, which appears to be what you're advocating, is to dose H2O2, ( not sure what this does but sounds dangerous to me ), vacuum, ( I've expressed my concerns with this although I'd love to get it out of there quick ), and water change with the vacuuming. I don't really understand why I'd need a water change with 0.0 nutrients. I assume in either approach I would need to find a way to boost my nutrient levels? Some suggest cutting off lighting while others do not. Finally I've seen it suggested I need to add carbon to my filtration due to the release of toxins by dying dinos. Not sure my Tangs would benefit from that. I'd welcome your thoughts on what I've said here. I'm not picking a side I'm only trying to decide whats best for my tank. Thanks for the help.

You have the right to make choices. H20 is mainly water and safe as I use it in my own systems and it simply lifts organisms. The liquid bacteria competes with the bad bacteria and yes can become toxic . Cleaning filters daily and initial vacuum removes what is there to reduce amount present.
This stuff is photosynthetic and feeds off light/loves light. Cuttying lihts takes away its food source.

 

[TWYOUNG]

You have the right to make choices. H20 is mainly water and safe as I use it in my own systems and it simply lifts organisms. The liquid bacteria competes with the bad bacteria and yes can become toxic . Cleaning filters daily and initial vacuum removes what is there to reduce amount present.
This stuff is photosynthetic and feeds off light/loves light. Cuttying lihts takes away its food source.

Thanks. What do you mean by, "lifts organisms"? Would it be a good idea for me to introduce some big Turbo snails at this point or will the algae be toxic to them? I've got quite a lot of snails but they're tiny. I moved two large 3+ yo Tiger Turbos from an old tank two weeks ago and one died within a week. The other seems alright so possibly unrelated.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks. What do you mean by, "lifts organisms"? Would it be a good idea for me to introduce some big Turbo snails at this point or will the algae be toxic to them? I've got quite a lot of snails but they're tiny. I moved two large 3+ yo Tiger Turbos from an old tank two weeks ago and one died within a week. The other seems alright so possibly unrelated.

Snails after treatment is finished due to potential toxicity.
Lifts... meaning it prevents organisms to clump together and forces the flagellates into the water column as H20 oxidixes the cells of flagellates

 

[TWYOUNG]

Snails after treatment is finished due to potential toxicity.
Lifts... meaning it prevents organisms to clump together and forces the flagellates into the water column as H20 oxidixes the cells of flagellates

Thanks!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I've seen primarily two lines of approach. Dose sodium silicate to boost diatom competition, phyto and pods. Vacuuming is discouraged because it removes the good stuff with the bad, (bacteria & pods). The other method, which appears to be what you're advocating, is to dose H2O2, ( not sure what this does but sounds dangerous to me ), vacuum, ( I've expressed my concerns with this although I'd love to get it out of there quick ), and water change with the vacuuming. I don't really understand why I'd need a water change with 0.0 nutrients. I assume in either approach I would need to find a way to boost my nutrient levels? Some suggest cutting off lighting while others do not. Finally I've seen it suggested I need to add carbon to my filtration due to the release of toxins by dying dinos. Not sure my Tangs would benefit from that. I'd welcome your thoughts on what I've said here. I'm not picking a side I'm only trying to decide whats best for my tank. Thanks for the help.

Vacuuming is discouraged because it removes the good stuff with the bad

*Vacuuming the sand bed and vac/siphoning out the algae/dinos are 2 different things. In most situations, manual removal (any method) of whatever you're trying to eliminate will go a long way to help.

I don't really understand why I'd need a water change with 0.0 nutrients

*I believe water changes can be helpful to remove anything released by dead or dying algae/dinos

I've seen it suggested I need to add carbon to my filtration due to the release of toxins by dying dinos. Not sure my Tangs would benefit from that.

*I don't know if short term carbon use has a negative effect on tangs Obviously do your own research and don't use if you feel the risks outweigh the benefits, but it's a great way to remove the toxins you mentioned. Tossing a bag in a high flow area of the sump for 24-48 hours shouldn't cause HLLE. (and from what I understand, fish will recover from HLLE when caught early, so using carbon for this purpose probably won't harm the fish)

I'm only trying to decide whats best for my tank

*Definitive ID of the type of dinos will help with choosing the right treatment

Good luck!

 

[TWYOUNG]

Vacuuming is discouraged because it removes the good stuff with the bad

*Vacuuming the sand bed and vac/siphoning out the algae/dinos are 2 different things. In most situations, manual removal (any method) of whatever you're trying to eliminate will go a long way to help.

I don't really understand why I'd need a water change with 0.0 nutrients

*I believe water changes can be helpful to remove anything released by dead or dying algae/dinos

I've seen it suggested I need to add carbon to my filtration due to the release of toxins by dying dinos. Not sure my Tangs would benefit from that.

*I don't know if short term carbon use has a negative effect on tangs Obviously do your own research and don't use if you feel the risks outweigh the benefits, but it's a great way to remove the toxins you mentioned. Tossing a bag in a high flow area of the sump for 24-48 hours shouldn't cause HLLE. (and from what I understand, fish will recover from HLLE when caught early, so using carbon for this purpose probably won't harm the fish)

I'm only trying to decide whats best for my tank

*Definitive ID of the type of dinos will help with choosing the right treatment

Good luck!

Thanks so much for your detailed item by item analysis. Did you view the photos I posted? I've been told they're prorocentrum and I have no reason to doubt that although several types look quite similar.

 

[oreolk]

I feel your pain. I agree on prorocentrum. I'm hopefully at the home stretch with them. What I did: make sure you have detectable phosphates. I started dosing Brightwell neophos, then switched over to home made solution using loudwolf sodium phosphate. I dosed waterglass to raise silicates. This will increase diatoms to compete with dinos. Siphon out the dinos daily. Not a water change. Run the end of your hose into a 5 or 10 micron sock in your sump. It isn't a quick fix so be patient and prepare to feel like you are fighting a losing battle. But every one you get out of the tank is one less to reproduce.
Unfortunately Prorocentrum don't go into the water column at night, but you can force them to with a 3 day blackout. If you can run UV that will help. Keep your phosphate at detectable levels, I shoot for .03. Siphon the **** out of them, blackout, UV and lots of patience!!
Good luck

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Thanks so much for your detailed item by item analysis. Did you view the photos I posted? I've been told they're prorocentrum and I have no reason to doubt that although several types look quite similar.

I defer to others who have more experience identifying dino types.

 

[TWYOUNG]

I defer to others who have more experience identifying dino types.

Erin, wanted reassurance before I start dosing nutrients. NeoPhos calculates out to 5.7 mls/day to raise the level in my 150 gals from zero to 0.02ppm which seems reasonable. NeoNitro however suggests a goal of 3ppm and to raise mine from zero to 3 will require 56.7 mls! meaning the 500ml bottle only has about 9 doses in it. Does this match your experiance?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Erin, wanted reassurance before I start dosing nutrients. NeoPhos calculates out to 5.7 mls/day to raise the level in my 150 gals from zero to 0.02ppm which seems reasonable. NeoNitro however suggests a goal of 3ppm and to raise mine from zero to 3 will require 56.7 mls! meaning the 500ml bottle only has about 9 doses in it. Does this match your experiance?

I've never had to dose nutrients, so I really can't help.
Hopefully others will chime in. There may be info on the reef chemistry forum too...

 

[oreolk]

Here is some information for you.

 

[TWYOUNG]

hmHere is some information for you.

Attach

Pack your patience...Here is what is working for me...May or may not work for you as each tank is a little different...I am just coming down the home stretch (hopefully) with my dino battle...keep your nutrient levels stable and above 0/undetectable (minimal doses of nitrate and phosphate just to keep it stable)...dose some live bacteria if you can get your hands on some (Fritzyme Turbo or something like this or some other form of biodiversity some rubble from another reef hobbyist would work too)...no water changes or vacuum sand or anything, just add top off water as needed...Make sure your clean up crew is well stocked to help you out...I already had some pods in my tank but put in another bottle from Reef Nutrition...not that pods are an end all for dinos but who knows...if nothing else they are fish food which in turn boosts nitrates and nutrients...Again be patient!

So here's my plan. Dosing NeoNitro & NeoPhos to keep levels near 10 and 0.1. Resume phyto dosing daily. Monitor pods and add if needed. I've got phyto & pod cultures brewing. Decreasing light intensity but no blackout. Took some coral skeleton rubble from the sump of my 30yo FOWLR and put in new sump. Taking 1-2 gallons per day out of tank and replacing with water from old tank, (which runs about 40-50 nitrates and >2.5 phosphates. Microbactor 7 weekly. Not sure whether to attempt any manual removal but periodically brushing off rock. Debating merits of sodium silicate dosing vs H2O2 but likely will use the former. Skimmer running "open". Any thoughts from other reefers are quite welcome.

 

[TWYOUNG]

Thanks so much for your detailed item by item analysis. Did you view the photos I posted? I've been told they're prorocentrum and I have no reason to doubt that although several types look quite similar.

As far as sand cleaning are you recommending siphoning off the top of the sand rather than traditional vacuuming with a tube attached to a hose? Do I have to pitch all the sand I'll end up sucking up?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

As far as sand cleaning are you recommending siphoning off the top of the sand rather than traditional vacuuming with a tube attached to a hose? Do I have to pitch all the sand I'll end up sucking up?

If you're asking me, I'd recommend trying to remove as much of the algae on the sandbed. If it's in mats, just try to scoop up the mats of algae. Likely will have some sand attached but I'm not suggesting deliberately removing the sand otherwise. When I had a lot of cyano, I used a big slotted spoon to remove the mats.
If you end up removing a lot of "extra" sand, then yes, you can add it back... this method isn't going to remove 100% anyway

Hope this makes sense

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

If you're asking me, I'd recommend trying to remove as much of the algae on the sandbed. If it's in mats, just try to scoop up the mats of algae. Likely will have some sand attached but I'm not suggesting deliberately removing the sand otherwise. When I had a lot of cyano, I used a big slotted spoon to remove the mats.
If you end up removing a lot of "extra" sand, then yes, you can add it back... this method isn't going to remove 100% anyway

Hope this makes sense

For example, if you have a patch like this, then try to scoop it out all at once...

 

[Sargeeq]

It's a daily battle, look for small wins such as decreased daily accumulation and keep fighting until they're gone.

UV, increase of NO and PO, bacteria dosing, and adding Pods.... sounds like you have a good idea already, keep us posted and good luck!

 

[TWYOUNG]

It's a daily battle, look for small wins such as decreased daily accumulation and keep fighting until they're gone.

UV, increase of NO and PO, bacteria dosing, and adding Pods.... sounds like you have a good idea already, keep us posted and good luck!

Thanks for the support. I'm sure I'll have questions as I proceed.

 

[TWYOUNG]

Ostreo dino
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

Do you dose the Microbacter 7 daily? The bottle instructs weekly for the dose you suggest.