Nitrates & Phos at 0 with lot of bioload

[merfury1989]

Hey guys need a help with this one.

My tank is 23g (90L)
I have 2 clownfish, 1 Blue Damsel, 1 Scopas Tang, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 1 Cleaner Shrimp

Have mixed collection of corals from softies to sps.

I have skimmer which runs 24/7
I have algae scrubber that works 18hr

I do water changes every 2 weeks (10%)

I feed twice a day. I have a lot of algae trapped in the scrubber, and I have brown algae on rocks.

My question is why my nitrate and phos at 0ppm?

Alk 9
Cal 455
Mag 1390
Salinity 35
Ph 8
Temp 25

 

[Dave1993]

oh boy they coming for you now

 

[cwerner]

Is there actually any water in the tank or is it all just fish?

Honoestly though that Scopas Tang REALLY shouldn't be in a 23g tank. Try multiplying that by 10 times. If it's a tiny baby it will work for a bit.

 

[Timfish]

I would definitely consider rehoming the Scopas tang. There's a lot of biology in systems that will soak up organic and inorganic nutrients (we can only test for inorganic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus). Besides fish and corals and algae there's biofilms, cryptic sponges and fungii and all kinds of invertabrates messing with stuff. I would remvoe the macro algae (it dumps stuff in the water that can have deliterious effects on corals) and feed more.

Here's some links you might find informative:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Microbial view of Coral Decline


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[Tired]

That tang absolutely needs to come out, now. That tank isn't big enough for a baby, and a tang in too small of a tank is a miserably stressed tang, which both makes it susceptible to disease and can cause it to attack other fish.

That said, how are the corals doing? You may well be at a state where nitrates and phosphates are technically present for the corals to use, but are being used up before you can see them on a test kit. It's a workable state.

Also, the algae scrubber, a thing which is used to remove nutrients, probably explains why you have low nutrients.

 

[Dave1993]

lock him up and throw away the key boys and girls

 

[doubleshot00]

So stop doing these.

I have skimmer which runs 24/7
I have algae scrubber that works 18hr

I do water changes every 2 weeks (10%)

 

[merfury1989]

Ya tang I am removing soon (200g tank will be cycled in couple of weeks).

In terms of my nutrients being used before it shows on tests. How do people get 5-10 nitrate levels and 0.03-0.05 phos levels in their system when the corals and algae are using the nutrients? Is there a balance where those numbers still show on tests while being used up?

I am getting a lot of brown algae on rocks and glass even when I am using skimmer, and algae scrubber (which also has 3 times the algae quantity vs display/rock). So that means I have lot of nitrate/phos? So would it be wise to actually shut down either device?

 

[Tired]

There is a balance, yes. Generally it's preferable to aim for the balance that keeps some nutrients available, it's just that, in a mature tank showing no signs of stress, 0 nutrients on test results isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Algae growing means you have an amount of nutrients that algae can use. Given that you can have algae growing in a near-sterile new tank that /actually/ has 0 readable nutrients, no, algae growth doesn't mean you have a lot of nutrients.

Shutting down either device, or both, is probably a good idea. As to the algae, make sure your source water is pure, and check your cleanup crew- you might need more cleanup crew or a new filter in the RODI system.

 

[nereefpat]

How are you testing for phosphate? If it isn't a Hanna Ultra Low Range, then I wouldn't believe the zero

 

[Propane]

What test kids are you using?
Kits*

 

[Uncle99]

Hey guys need a help with this one.

My tank is 23g (90L)
I have 2 clownfish, 1 Blue Damsel, 1 Scopas Tang, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 1 Cleaner Shrimp

Have mixed collection of corals from softies to sps.

I have skimmer which runs 24/7
I have algae scrubber that works 18hr

I do water changes every 2 weeks (10%)

I feed twice a day. I have a lot of algae trapped in the scrubber, and I have brown algae on rocks.

My question is why my nitrate and phos at 0ppm?

Alk 9
Cal 455
Mag 1390
Salinity 35
Ph 8
Temp 25

I’d get a second opinion on nitrate/phosphate levels.
At minimum, you’d have at least trace amounts.
As well, If either is zero or highly elevated, your going to get pest type stuff.
Confirm those numbers, bump both into the band and get them to “hold” week after week.

 

[merfury1989]

Ok did a new test, here are the the results

Nitrates = 0ppm (Salifret test kit - shows comple white)
Phos = 0.02ppm (Hannah)

Also I noticed brown slimy stuff on rocks and have bubbles attached to it. Dinos?

 

[Rocktron1]

How do you plan on catching the tang? Curious to know as I need to rehome my brown scopas tang as well but not sure how to catch him

 

[merfury1989]

How do you plan on catching the tang? Curious to know as I need to rehome my brown scopas tang as well but not sure how to catch him

Light out (full dark) for 1hr late in night, then net it (open low par blue light, or handheld torch). I removed mine before using 2 nets.

There are other methods such as DIY fish trap, feeding nori off fish net etc. You can try some.

 

[Luke Schnabel]

Think of your nitrates and phosphates like a human eating. If you eat too much (INPUT) and don't work out (OUTPUT) you get fat. In your tank, if you feed (INPUT) and your OUTPUT (Skimmer, Reactors, Water Changes, Algae Growth, Coral Growth, Bacteria ect ect) is less than the INPUT, there will be an excess of nutrients. The same goes if you eat and you burn more calories than you ate, you lose weight due to not having enough input. If you Feed your tank less than it's consuming, nitrates and phosphates go down. INPUT vs OUTPUT!!!!

It's really a balancing act and at some point, you will begin to figure out exactly how much food you need to feed to equal the amount that is being consumed in your system.

 

[twentyleagues]

Algae is growing there for no free nitrates/phosphates or very low to test for.

 

[merfury1989]

Think of your nitrates and phosphates like a human eating. If you eat too much (INPUT) and don't work out (OUTPUT) you get fat. In your tank, if you feed (INPUT) and your OUTPUT (Skimmer, Reactors, Water Changes, Algae Growth, Coral Growth, Bacteria ect ect) is less than the INPUT, there will be an excess of nutrients. The same goes if you eat and you burn more calories than you ate, you lose weight due to not having enough input. If you Feed your tank less than it's consuming, nitrates and phosphates go down. INPUT vs OUTPUT!!!!

It's really a balancing act and at some point, you will begin to figure out exactly how much food you need to feed to equal the amount that is being consumed in your system.

Good analogy, but how do I counter Dinos, I assume they came due to low to no nutrients. Whats confusing for me is I have algae scrubber working and it has quite a lot GHA in it, so what prompted Dinos, when it had its competitor consuming nutrients.

Is it due to very low nutrients, that is not utilised by GHA as efficiently as Dinos? Meaning I need to increase my nutrients so GHA gets a short.

In the past I countered dinos by reducing light and bunping the tempreture to 28-29 Celsius, but I can't risk this now as I have livestock.

So would love to hear what you guys think.

 

[doubleshot00]

Ya tang I am removing soon (200g tank will be cycled in couple of weeks).

In terms of my nutrients being used before it shows on tests. How do people get 5-10 nitrate levels and 0.03-0.05 phos levels in their system when the corals and algae are using the nutrients? Is there a balance where those numbers still show on tests while being used up?

I am getting a lot of brown algae on rocks and glass even when I am using skimmer, and algae scrubber (which also has 3 times the algae quantity vs display/rock). So that means I have lot of nitrate/phos? So would it be wise to actually shut down either device?

In terms of my nutrients being used before it shows on tests. How do people get 5-10 nitrate levels and 0.03-0.05 phos levels in their system when the corals and algae are using the nutrients? Is there a balance where those numbers still show on tests while being used up? By not doing WCs, feeding heavy and not using a bunch of equipment like algae scrubbers

I am getting a lot of brown algae on rocks and glass even when I am using skimmer, and algae scrubber (which also has 3 times the algae quantity vs display/rock). So that means I have lot of nitrate/phos? So would it be wise to actually shut down either device? You probably have dinos at this point.

 

[OscarHaglund]

That tang absolutely needs to come out, now. That tank isn't big enough for a baby, and a tang in too small of a tank is a miserably stressed tang, which both makes it susceptible to disease and can cause it to attack other fish.

That said, how are the corals doing? You may well be at a state where nitrates and phosphates are technically present for the corals to use, but are being used up before you can see them on a test kit. It's a workable state.

Also, the algae scrubber, a thing which is used to remove nutrients, probably explains why you have low nutrients.

Not defending, but i saw a yellow that lived in a 50l for 3 years before being sold. It honestly looked fine and not very stressed