Nitrates...what's the deal?

[cilyjr]

I have not tested nitrates in my system since I cycled my tank back in 2006. At first I didn't care as I was told nitrates were evil. So I didn't care they were 0 on my salifert kit. Then years go by and I'd test from time to time and always get a reading of 0. Then my nitrate test kit expired and years went by and I test from time to time and still get a 0. So then I would assume that the test kit is expired so I'm getting an inaccurate reading I mean there has to be a little bit of nitrate floating around in there. So I got a new test kit it doesn't expire until 2019 and when I did the test it read 0.

Now I'm reading the forums more often and all the kids are "dude 0 nitrates bad. Nitrates are the cats meow, or the bees knees," (this is how I assume hipster kids talk). Here I was thinking any nitrates were bad now I'm being told I need to have nitrates.

What do you guys think about this?

 

[GMay]

Like you, my tests for nitrates and phosphates always read none detected. I don't worry about is as the fish and corals are all doing fine. I also feed fairly heavily, so I know I am adding both nitrogen and phosphorus to the system. I do do weekly 10% water changes andhave a little bit of algae. I assume that the little bit of algae consumes and nitrates or phosphates that are present.

 

[rtparty]

Corals need food. Nitrates and phosphates are food. It's finding your system's balance point

 

[Jason mack]

It depends a lot on your import and export of nutrients in Your system , can you give us some more info on your set up and equipnent .. and if your are running gfo or carbon .. but from what I've read and learned on here so far is that are tanks and corals need some nutrients e.g. Nitrates and phosphate too survive ..

 

[GoVols]

It depends a lot on your import and export of nutrients in Your system , can you give us some more info on your set up and equipnent .. and if your are running gfo or carbon .. but from what I've read and learned on here so far is that are tanks and corals need some nutrients e.g. Nitrates and phosphate too survive ..

+1
You also need accurate test kit (Brands) when testing for Phos and Nitrates.

 

[TbyZ]

In regards to people dosing NO3 (to maintain levels around 1 to 2ppm or higher) & reporting better color & health of sps coral, if true, I believe has a link to photosynthesis.

Concentrations of NO3 in natural reef water are also undetectable using hobby grade test kits, but the alkalinity of natural reef water is around 125ppm, a much lower level than many hobbyists maintain. Keep in mind that organisms in the ocean predominantly obtain their co2 for photosynthesis from bicarbonates.

Evidence appears to be indicating that reef tanks with alkalinity maintained at higher than natural levels, especially in combination with moderate to high water turbulence, increases the rate of photosynthesis. And NO3, & nitrogen in general, is needed by the organisms in the process of photosynthesis.

Perhaps in this scenario, of increased photosynthesis, traces of NO3 are insufficient, causing an imbalance, & additions of NO3 are beneficial.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2016/9/aafeature Effects of Various Alkalinity Concentrations on Rates of Zooxanthellae Photosynthesis

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2017/2/aafeature Part II: Combined Effects of Water Velocity and Alkalinity Concentrations

.

 

[tyler1503]

Sure having a little nitrate may be beneficial for some people, but as long as your livestock is healthy and you're happy with the hobby, don't worry about changing anything.
No nitrate and minimal phosphate was the big thing in reefkeeping when I joined this site. Do some reading up on ULNS tanks. Some people had great success, some didn't. Same goes for this "a little nitrate is good" fad. Some people have great success, others don't.
I bet in 10 years no one will even know or care what their nutrient levels are because of some scientific or technological advancements [emoji23]

 

[cilyjr]

@TbyZ thanks for the links. In the ballpark of what I was looking for

 

[cilyjr]

Sure having a little nitrate may be beneficial for some people, but as long as your livestock is healthy and you're happy with the hobby, don't worry about changing anything.
No nitrate and minimal phosphate was the big thing in reefkeeping when I joined this site. Do some reading up on ULNS tanks. Some people had great success, some didn't. Same goes for this "a little nitrate is good" fad. Some people have great success, others don't.
I bet in 10 years no one will even know or care what their nutrient levels are because of some scientific or technological advancements [emoji23]

Yeah I'm by no means looking to go chasing after a number. I'm just interested in what people are thinking about nitrates.

I've never intentionally kept a ULN system and don't plan to. I'm not going to use biopellets. I don't run gfo unless I see Po4 above .06. Overall I'm content that said my curiosity had been piqued.

 

[TbyZ]

No nitrate and minimal phosphate was the big thing in reefkeeping when I joined this site. Do some reading up on ULNS tanks.
[emoji23]

Zeovit specifically recommend natural seawater alkalinity levels

 

[GoVols]

Sure having a little nitrate may be beneficial for some people, but as long as your livestock is healthy and you're happy with the hobby, don't worry about changing anything.
No nitrate and minimal phosphate was the big thing in reefkeeping when I joined this site. Do some reading up on ULNS tanks. Some people had great success, some didn't. Same goes for this "a little nitrate is good" fad. Some people have great success, others don't.
I bet in 10 years no one will even know or care what their nutrient levels are because of some scientific or technological advancements [emoji23]

+1
I did the ULNS and NSW thing for awhile with carbon dosing. My corals looked good but they were more pastel colored. So I went back to good ole GFO, kept up with good water changes and run a purigen reactor to help work with my skimmer to capture organics before they hit the nitrogen cycle.

(Purigen does nothing to absorb nitrates that are already in the water column once nitrates are produced from the nitrogen cycle).

I also went away from NSW parameters and now my coral colors and growth have never looked better.

You should test and shoot for certain parameters but if your reef is looking good over a long routine than by all means don't change what your doing just for the next fad.

JMO... You couldn't give me a bio-pellet rector. I like to play it safe and to me there like a ticking time bomb.

My reef looks it's best without carbon dosing and slightly elevated big 3 parameters

 

[rtparty]

Same goes for this "a little nitrate is good" fad. [emoji23]

Funny you see it as a fad. Since I started keeping reefs (2006) I've always found the best systems have some food for their corals. Whether that's nitrates or specific foods for corals. Even carbon dosing will feed the corals.

The amazing thing about this hobby is that no one way is right. About the only thing we all have to make sure is that we have a good import/export method.

 

[GoVols]

I'm add one more thing.
I started running 1.5 gallons of Seachem "Matrix" in my sump in a 20 gallon per hour reactor. Figured if I ran the flow slow enough I'd grow nitrate consuming bacteria and right now is those Marine Pure blocks are selling like hot cakes.

Well after 8 weeks my nitrates were going up.

Then,
I happen to read a RH-F article that live rock was the best way to go for nitrate consuming bacteria.
He also added that other means could just make a giant nitrate factory. So I went back to Seachem's and Marine Pure's sites and they have no scientific proof that their products reduce nitrates by any scientific test studies.
If I'm wrong (And I'm wrong a lot) please show me their scientific proof with their details on how to set it up to match their data.

So, I followed FH-F article and pulled the man made bio filtration from my sump's reactor and he was spot on!
I was running a nitrate factory in that reactor. I pulled the media, let the live rock do it's job and my nitrates came down.

The man made deep pore filtration my be consuming nitrates for you but it was a nitrate factory for me.

Regards, GoVols

 

[GoVols]

The amazing thing about this hobby is that no one way is right. About the only thing we all have to make sure is that we have a good import/export method.

+1
Many ways to skin a cat

 

[cilyjr]

I don't know about those man made blocks. I have somewhere between 350 and 400 lbs of live rock some in the DT but most shoe horned into a 75 gallon sump. I've always assumed it's why I don't have any nitrates showing up. But who knows.

 

[GoVols]

I don't know about those man made blocks. I have somewhere between 350 and 400 lbs of live rock some in the DT but most shoe horned into a 75 gallon sump. I've always assumed it's why I don't have any nitrates showing up. But who knows.

lol,
For me the "Matrix" was doing what you'd expect with plastic bio-balls in a trickle filter even at a low 20 gph flow rate in a closed reactor.

At least, I can say I gave it a shot

 

[buckroe07]

The amazing thing about this hobby is that no one way is right. About the only thing we all have to make sure is that we have a good import/export method.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. What's crazy is that my previous tank before it crashed had really high NO3. I tried a lot of water changes, using Seachem Matrix in a reactor which only made it go up even more, and then a korallin biodenitrator which brought it down to 0.

My current set up which has been running for a year has 0 NO3 and PO4 that has never gone above .06. It's the same tank, sump, light and same person taking care of the tank using the same husbandry skills. I'm not complaining by no means I am just amazed at how I tried so hard to lower NO3 before and now my tank somehow does it on its own. Only difference is I'm using a different skimmer. Maybe ATB really is that good, LOL!

 

[NeverlosT]

I run a marinepure block right now, but I have high nitrates (16-25ppm) so who knows, could be a good experiment to remove it and see what happens.

My phosphates and nitrates have been kind of high lately, and in my system, that is bad. I started with GFO, brought phosphates down to 0.01-0.05ppm and boom all kinds of SPS growth tips showed up. So direct correlation there.

The only reason that I have ever dosed potassium nitrate is when I was using NO3PO4X and wanted to remove phosphates but my nitrates were low, so I dosed some nitrates since I heard it takes some of each to lower either one. The results were inconclusive.

I suggest only tweaking things if your growth is super slow or colors terrible.

Another good indicator is with way too high nutrients things tend to "Brown out/green out", as opposed to showing their natural colors. Heck I had a red robin stag that looked like a red planet (red/green mix) when the nutrients were too high.

crappy thing is, if things get out of wack and your SPS are unhappy, it can take months for them to get happy again... ugh

 

[GoVols]

This is a really nice thread with each reefer explaining what worked for them or didn't.

It's also been a peaceful thread with great respect to each other and I hope it stays this way

 

[Jason mack]

I guess the thing is no 2 tanks will ever be the same , what works for one might not work for another .. its through forums like this that we get too share a wealth of knowledge and experience,and it's through trial and error that we learn ..