Optimal phosphate level? (Mixed Reef)

[Crabby48]

Wow. Interesting. That is most assuredly it then. Could it also make calcium go up slightly ?

Agree calcium increase I don’t see how. Check salinity that will effect calcium.

 

[ReefReadyYouTube]

I run my tank between .3-.5 for phos and have no issues

Thanks for the feed back. Good to know someone else with the same phosphate level as me isn’t having problems.

 

[5280Reefer]

Thanks for the feed back. Good to know someone else with the same phosphate level as me isn’t having problems.

check out my build thread you will see the dreaded sps that are supposed to die from high nitrates and phosphates color up and grow fast. I tend to run Nitrates around 25-35 ppm so also high haha

 

[WisconsinReefing]

Agree calcium increase I don’t see how. Check salinity that will effect calcium.

Salinity checked every other day 1-024-1.025

 

[Crabby48]

Thanks for the feed back. Good to know someone else with the same phosphate level as me isn’t having problems.

.3 would be my high cut off but if it is stabile and coral are happy and no algae I would keep it thee. I kept my po4 .25 for months before adding a fuge

 

[Crabby48]

Salinity checked every other day 1-024-1.025

Salinity checked every other day 1-024-1.025

Test kits and human error will show a difference. Also time of day will show a difference. Test same time a day and make sure you do everything the same every test. Only if you are talking about a big difference you are probably ok

 

[living_tribunal]

What should a good phosphate level be for a mixed reef be (SPS,LPS,&softies)? My phosphate levels were around a 0.15ppm and I was told that was to low so I brought it up to a 0.30ppm but I think that’s to high. What should it be around?

It's less about your absolute phosphate level and more about your N/P ratio. Current reefs (real world reefs) that are maintaining very fast growth have an N/P of 4-5x.

Anything under 10-14x will be great. Over 20x is when you see less growth.

If we're talking absolute values, a study concerning the impact of phosphates levels on acropora revealed acropora grew the most with the greatest polyp extension at the highest phosphate level of .5. While corals will grow significantly faster under higher phosphate levels, it comes at the expense of a slightly more porous skeleton.

New advances in coral research have revealed that high nitrate levels, especially in relation to phosphate levels, are very detrimental to coral skeletal growth and polyp extension. High phosphate levels, especially in relation to high nitrate levels, led to significantly increased coral growth, calcification, and polyp extension.

The levels for their low nitrate/high phosphate conditions were LN/HP = ~ 0.06 μM NO3−/~3.6 μM PO4−; N / P ratio = 1

Nutrients and coral growth: Nitrogen impairs, but Phosphorus aids

New From our friends over at the Burkepile Lab at Florida International University - It's been communicated many times that nutrient pollution of the oceans can affect the performance of various coral species. To date, the results have been varied…researchers find different responses, but they...

appliedecology.cals.ncsu.edu

Limited phosphorus availability is the Achilles heel of tropical reef corals in a warming ocean - Scientific Reports

During the 20th century, seawater temperatures have significantly increased, leading to profound alterations in biogeochemical cycles and ecosystem processes. Elevated temperatures have also caused massive bleaching (symbiont/pigment loss) of autotrophic symbioses, such as in...

www.nature.com

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with dinoflagellates (Symbiodinium sp.). We argue, however, that the direct negative effects on the symbiosis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach | Request PDF

Request PDF | Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach | Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We... |...

www.researchgate.net

 

[WisconsinReefing]

It's less about your absolute phosphate level and more about your N/P ratio. Current reefs (real world reefs) that are maintaining very fast growth have an N/P of 4-5x.

Anything under 10-14x will be great. Over 20x is when you see less growth.

If we're talking absolute values, a study concerning the impact of phosphates levels on acropora revealed acropora grew the most with the greatest polyp extension at the highest phosphate level of .5. While corals will grow significantly faster under higher phosphate levels, it comes at the expense of a slightly more porous skeleton.

New advances in coral research have revealed that high nitrate levels, especially in relation to phosphate levels, are very detrimental to coral skeletal growth and polyp extension. High phosphate levels, especially in relation to high nitrate levels, led to significantly increased coral growth, calcification, and polyp extension.

The levels for their low nitrate/high phosphate conditions were LN/HP = ~ 0.06 μM NO3−/~3.6 μM PO4−; N / P ratio = 1

Nutrients and coral growth: Nitrogen impairs, but Phosphorus aids

New From our friends over at the Burkepile Lab at Florida International University - It's been communicated many times that nutrient pollution of the oceans can affect the performance of various coral species. To date, the results have been varied…researchers find different responses, but they...

appliedecology.cals.ncsu.edu

Limited phosphorus availability is the Achilles heel of tropical reef corals in a warming ocean - Scientific Reports

During the 20th century, seawater temperatures have significantly increased, leading to profound alterations in biogeochemical cycles and ecosystem processes. Elevated temperatures have also caused massive bleaching (symbiont/pigment loss) of autotrophic symbioses, such as in...

www.nature.com

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with dinoflagellates (Symbiodinium sp.). We argue, however, that the direct negative effects on the symbiosis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach | Request PDF

Request PDF | Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach | Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We... |...

www.researchgate.net

Man. I read that 3 times lol. If I’m understanding it, low phosphate and high nitrate is very bad, but higher phosphate with higher nitrate is good? Forgive my idiocy it’s nearly midnight lol

For what it’s worth my nitrate is .2 and phosphate .29

 

[living_tribunal]

Man. I read that 3 times lol. If I’m understanding it, low phosphate and high nitrate is very bad, but higher phosphate with higher nitrate is good? Forgive my idiocy it’s nearly midnight lol

For what it’s worth my nitrate is .2 and phosphate .29

To summarize it concisely, high nitrate and high phosphate at a N/P range of 5-10x is the most optimal for coral health and growth. However, growth and health is nearly identical to that level the higher phosphates become and the lower nitrates drop.

The HN/HP level in the test was 38 μM NO3−/~0.18 3.6μM PO4 for a N/P of 10x.

Corals can tolerate very high phosphate levels but the will die from high nitrate levels as it disrupts the symbiotic relationship where the coral transfers small amounts of nitrate to the zooxanthelle and the zoox in turn transferes sugars for the coral. So when in doubt, increase phosphates, drop nitrate.

With nitrate at .6 and phosphate at .29, you're at a very excellent N/P range.

 

[WisconsinReefing]

To summarize it concisely, high nitrate and high phosphate at a N/P range of 4-5x is the most optimal for coral health and growth. However, growth and health is nearly identical to that level the higher phosphates become and the lower nitrates drop.

Corals can tolerate very high phosphate levels but the will die from high nitrate levels as it disrupts the symbiotic relationship where the coral transfers small amounts of nitrate to the zooxanthelle and the zoox in turn transferes sugars for the coral. So when in doubt, increase phosphates, drop nitrate.

Simply speaking as a .ppm what is a high nitrate level that would kill corals. I’ve heard everything from it should be 0, to .6 is fine. I seem to travel from .2-.3. I’ve long tried to lower it with no success.

 

[WisconsinReefing]

[QUOTE="living_tribunal, post: 6911069, member: 127910]
With nitrate at .6 and phosphate at .29, you're at a very excellent N/P range.
[/QUOTE]
My nitrate is .3. Should I work to get it to .6?

(Thank you for this. Incredibly enlightening)

 

[living_tribunal]

Simply speaking as a .ppm what is a high nitrate level that would kill corals. I’ve heard everything from it should be 0, to .6 is fine. I seem to travel from .2-.3. I’ve long tried to lower it with no success.

Once again, it's not how high the nitrate is but how high it is in relation to phosphates. The main issue is that nitrate fuels algae growth, even microscopic algae we can't see in our tanks. This algae will consume all of the available phosphate which is what the coral needs, and also it will disrupt the relationship between the coral and zoox.

The HN/LP levels in the study were HN/LP = ~ 38 μM NO3−/~0.18 μM PO4−; N ratio = 211:1 which led to the terrible polyp extension and cell densities in the pictures I added above.

 

[living_tribunal]

[QUOTE="living_tribunal, post: 6911069, member: 127910]
With nitrate at .6 and phosphate at .29, you're at a very excellent N/P range.

My nitrate is .3. Should I work to get it to .6?

(Thank you for this. Incredibly enlightening)
[/QUOTE]

No, corals need extremely small amounts of nitrate but larger quantities of phosphate. When in doubt, decrease nitrate. You're already at a really excellent ratio, don't change a thing.

 

[living_tribunal]

My nitrate is .3. Should I work to get it to .6?

(Thank you for this. Incredibly enlightening)

No, corals need extremely small amounts of nitrate but larger quantities of phosphate. When in doubt, decrease nitrate. You're already at a really excellent ratio, don't change a thing.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I misread. Yes, try to get your nitrate up slightly although Idon't think it would make much of a difference. Your nitrate levels are so low that I think getting it up another .3-.5 would maybe be a bit more safe to ensure that the corals have enough nitrate to utilize all of that phosphate.

 

[WisconsinReefing]

No, corals need extremely small amounts of nitrate but larger quantities of phosphate. When in doubt, decrease nitrate. You're already at a really excellent ratio, don't change a thing.

Sorry, I misread. Yes, try to get your nitrate up slightly although Idon't think it would make much of a difference. Your nitrate levels are so low that I think getting it up another .3-.5 would maybe be a bit more safe to ensure that the corals have enough nitrate to utilize all of that phosphate.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks so much for the education. Was incredibly helpful. And slowed down my anxiety for the moment. Lol

 

[Triggreef]

If we played guess the po4 level?? You wouldn't like the answer. I guarantee whatever the results the decimal point would be insignificant. Lol

 

[WisconsinReefing]

If we played guess the po4 level?? You wouldn't like the answer. I guarantee whatever the results the decimal point would be insignificant. Lol

Wow... that might be one of my favorite tanks I’ve ever seen. Amazing.

I’m brand new lol

 

[living_tribunal]

Sorry, I misread. Yes, try to get your nitrate up slightly although Idon't think it would make much of a difference. Your nitrate levels are so low that I think getting it up another .3-.5 would maybe be a bit more safe to ensure that the corals have enough nitrate to utilize all of that phosphate.

Thanks so much for the education. Was incredibly helpful. And slowed down my anxiety for the moment. Lol
[/QUOTE]

There is a lot of misinformation and fallacies out there regarding phosphates. With all of these people running gfo and other filtration that solely removes phosphates, it's no wonder why they keep complaining on the forums.


Regarding algae, algae will only grow up to the level that the nitrate will permit it to. So with a low nitrate/normal phosphate setup, you won't have any algae and you will have a lot of happy corals.

 

[WisconsinReefing]

Thanks so much for the education. Was incredibly helpful. And slowed down my anxiety for the moment. Lol

There is a lot of misinformation and fallacies out there regarding phosphates. With all of these people running gfo and other filtration that solely removes phosphates, it's no wonder why they keep complaining on the forums.


Regarding algae, algae will only grow up to the level that the nitrate will permit it to. So with a low nitrate/normal phosphate setup, you won't have any algae and you will have a lot of happy corals.
[/QUOTE]

This is probably my favorite coral. I’m trying not to chase numbers but I read all these horror stories. But from what I understand this is a moderately picky coral, shown the day I put him in to now (about a month) so seeing that gives me some confidence.

 

[living_tribunal]

There is a lot of misinformation and fallacies out there regarding phosphates. With all of these people running gfo and other filtration that solely removes phosphates, it's no wonder why they keep complaining on the forums.


Regarding algae, algae will only grow up to the level that the nitrate will permit it to. So with a low nitrate/normal phosphate setup, you won't have any algae and you will have a lot of happy corals.

This is probably my favorite coral. I’m trying not to chase numbers but I read all these horror stories. But from what I understand this is a moderately picky coral, shown the day I put him in to now (about a month) so seeing that gives me some confidence.


[/QUOTE]

Pectinia? It definitely is looking thicker! Your nutrient levels are better than 99% of reefers on here, don't change anything.