Options to raise Ph and Alkalinity in smaller tank?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would NO3 at 40-50 and PO4 at .37 play a role in lower pH? I think my PO4 is inflated due to silicates was fighting Dino’s for a while. Working to get those down with water changes no chemical or GFO yet.

No. Actual N and p levels do not impact pH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m kind of stunned at the lack of obvious answers to an extremely basic question… Your alk is low, hence your low pH. You just need a basic 2 part alk and calcium solution. Take your pick of the many commercially available options. The most popular are probably BRS, B-ionic, and Randy’s DIY 2 part recipe. Follow the instructions to get your Alk back up to 8-9 dKH. Your pH should come up with it. Since your tank is small you may just need to dilute the 2-part in some RODI water. Half and half should be plenty dilution to give you a manageable dose volume.

I actually already advised that was not the explanation and gave the data to support it.

 

[Reef.]

Cleaned the sensor and recalibrated pH pen and still sitting at 7.7. Going to take a sample to the LFS tomorrow for a quick test. I also aimed the return nozzles toward the surface more and it came up to 7.8 in 2 hours. So I turned the return pump up to max to get more surface agitation maybe that will help.

You are unlikely to get an accurate reading from your LFS as ph is impacted by Co2, bottling a little water in an airtight tub and transporting it to a different location is not ideal to get an accurate reading.

 

[DDenny]

No. Actual N and p levels do not impact pH.

That’s what I figured but had to ask.

 

[Formulator]

I actually already advised that was not the explanation and gave the data to support it.

I was thinking the pH was 7.7 and only needed a small boost. Regardless, the Alk needs to come up and will get the pH at least part of the way there. Sounds like better aeration might get it the rest of the way there. Could add a small can of CO2 scrubber media to the skimmer air intake. I’d bet those things combined would do the trick.

 

[Flatlower]

My alkalinity over the last month or so has been right at 6.7-6.8 DKH and pH sitting at 7.5-7.7. Calcium is sitting at 420ppm I haven’t test magnesium but I can pick up a test kit to see where it’s at. Tank has been set up almost 6 months. I added a couple small frags over the course of a month and are the following.
1 Hammer
1 Torch
1 Acan
1 Favia (maybe)
1 Duncan
Some Zoa’s as well
I know they will use up alk and calcium but with a 25g lagoon (probably 15 total gallons) with rock and sand. Would the DIY #1 be the best option to increase alkalinity and pH? Open to other options if they would work better. ThAnna for the help.

that's a long time without dosing. I would start using All For Reef one part. It's have calcium, alk and trace. That's my best tool i have.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was thinking the pH was 7.7 and only needed a small boost. Regardless, the Alk needs to come up and will get the pH at least part of the way there. Sounds like better aeration might get it the rest of the way there. Could add a small can of CO2 scrubber media to the skimmer air intake. I’d bet those things combined would do the trick.

An alk rise from 6.7 to 7.0 dKH will boost pH by 0nly 0.02 pH units from the alk rise alone.

Better aeration will work if the air is not high in CO2. if it is, more aeration with that air might even lower pH.

hence the need for the aeration test,.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

that's a long time without dosing. I would start using All For Reef one part. It's have calcium, alk and trace. That's my best tool i have.

While AFR is a fine product, it will not help the pH. It will tend to very slightly lower it.

 

[Formulator]

An alk rise from 6.7 to 7.0 dKH will boost pH by 0nly 0.02 pH units from the alk rise alone.

Better aeration will work if the air is not high in CO2. if it is, more aeration with that air might even lower pH.

hence the need for the aeration test,.

That is fair. I was suggesting more of an alk increase though. Bring that alk up to 8.5 or 9 (slowly) and we are talking about a significant portion of the pH gap, maybe 0.15-0.2 pH units depending on the alk supplement choice.

 

[GARRIGA]

That is fair. I was suggesting more of an alk increase though. Bring that alk up to 8.5 or 9 (slowly) and we are talking about a significant portion of the pH gap, maybe 0.15-0.2 pH units depending on the alk supplement choice.

Why I always correct the foundation before attacking the issue at hand. Although some prefer dkh of 7 which in this case won’t help.

 

[DDenny]

I am shooting for 8.0-8.3 as that is what my new saltwater for change mixes up to.

 

[Spare time]

What salt are you using? That's oddly low ph for how high your calcium is

Are you dosing calcium by any chance?

Kalkwasser would raise kh and ph but you would have to monitor your calcium and not raise it too much or your inverts will have issues molting

Calcium and pH are unrelated

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am shooting for 8.0-8.3 as that is what my new saltwater for change mixes up to.

FWIW, the pH of a salt mix after aeration only relates to the alkalinity and the air you aerated it with. It's not really an attribute of the salt mix.

 

[DDenny]

FWIW, the pH of a salt mix after aeration only relates to the alkalinity and the air you aerated it with. It's not really an attribute of the salt mix.

I should have made that more clear. That is the dkh that I am shooting for (8.0-8.4) as that is what the NSW mixes to.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I should have made that more clear. That is the dkh that I am shooting for (8.0-8.4) as that is what the NSW mixes to.

OK, but there's no reason to try to pH match new salt water and tank water. There are reasons to keep higher pH, due to faster hard coral growth at higher pH.

 

[GARRIGA]

OK, but there's no reason to try to pH match new salt water and tank water. There are reasons to keep higher pH, due to faster hard coral growth at higher pH.

Was discussing my issues with Julian at RAP and he clarified what I thought I knew from the 80s that below 7.8 they still grow but just slow. BRS came out with their investigate where 7.8 and skeletons start to melt and fear of Poseidon befell upon me. Plus all the talk of high alk and pH getting astronomical growth. I'm still seeking higher and near NSW of 8.3 but let's be honest. For some of us that's likely impossible and requires jumping through hoops such as kalk slurry and second reactors to offset the low pH from calcium reactors and a slew of other complexities turning this hobby into a glorified home lab.

Straight up question. Do we need to fear 7.7 other than it won't grow as fast and perhaps other factors why these little frags aren't flourishing? They say don't chase but at what point are we safe and perhaps focus on other concerns vs pH? This has to be the trillion tread since first we started talking about it on the net and behind our local stores and clubs regarding this single factor. I fear that I'm fearing fear more than fact

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Was discussing my issues with Julian at RAP and he clarified what I thought I knew from the 80s that below 7.8 they still grow but just slow. BRS came out with their investigate where 7.8 and skeletons start to melt and fear of Poseidon befell upon me. Plus all the talk of high alk and pH getting astronomical growth. I'm still seeking higher and near NSW of 8.3 but let's be honest. For some of us that's likely impossible and requires jumping through hoops such as kalk slurry and second reactors to offset the low pH from calcium reactors and a slew of other complexities turning this hobby into a glorified home lab.

Straight up question. Do we need to fear 7.7 other than it won't grow as fast and perhaps other factors why these little frags aren't flourishing? They say don't chase but at what point are we safe and perhaps focus on other concerns vs pH? This has to be the trillion tread since first we started talking about it on the net and behind our local stores and clubs regarding this single factor. I fear that I'm fearing fear more than fact

pH 7.7 is borderline where aragonite dissolves (depends on alk, higher alk prevents it), but very slowly. Some corals may deal with it and others not.

At that pH, if you cannot readily raise it, I'd just watch and see if corals are OK or not.

 

[GARRIGA]

pH 7.7 is borderline where aragonite dissolves (depends on alk, higher alk prevents it), but very slowly. Some corals may deal with it and others not.

At that pH, if you cannot readily raise it, I'd just watch and see if corals are OK or not.

Not the answer I was hoping for but it is what it is then.

As it then pertains to the OP if he still struggles to capture that 0.1 then wouldn’t raising alkalinity to 9 provide some relief? Seems he’s hit 7.8 by just aeration and perhaps in a few days that improves but like me perhaps you take what you get since 7.8 better than 7.7 as you stated. Running dkh at 10 I believe not detrimental assuming lights are adequate my understanding and if consumption increases then growth should accelerate. How I understand it. Much being from the 80/90s therefore not saying it’s fact at all.

 

[Freakaccident]

I run a 10 gallon AIO with 4 fish, many corals, and I have zero issues. I think you are overcomplicating this. I reply again soon with more.

 

[Freakaccident]

This is my setup:
Innovative Marine 10g AIO
First chamber = UV light - I run this when I am not feeding the corals - filter floss on top to catch big stuff - UV is off for a few hours after phytoplankton feeding and then turned back on.
Second Chamber = 2"x2" MarinePure cubes x 4 - This is after the UV so the copepods live in here. Alagaebarn.com copepod jar to stock this and it will go wild fast.
Third chamber = mesh bag of carbon x 1 and mesh bag of phosphate remover beads x 1 + 1 MarinePure cube

The 2"x2" MarinePure cubes provide like 25,000 sq/ft of surface area. They obliterate any other bio media. Do this and you will be so stable.

Stop dosing. Do water changes. Use this salt and do 30% weekly water changes and you don't even have to do water tests.

In a nano everything gets replenished with the salt mix during the water change. Just use the right salt and do 30% weekly and you will see growth that you wish you hadn't wished for.