Phosphates Out of Control - I need to Use GFO or some other Liquid PO remover

[Ashish Patel]

So i've been one to use natural method to run a reef tank but on my 400 gallon the PO are just out of control.
I dont have many corals (removed most and can remove them all if needed).

Hanna ULR showed 200 (last week), I made a 25% waterchange and reduced feeding, and yesterday I am still getting a blinking 200 on the ULR checker.

I am planning on making a large refugium in my sump and eventually hope that will be enough to stabilize the PO. I also want to upgrade the return pump (basement sump) bc I am not getting much turnover which is for sure creating a build up. I am sure my rockwork is leeching a ton of PO bc PO where high before adding fish. Tank has had water for 11 month but ran Hyposalinity so technically tank is only 4 months old. Not one to chase # but know for sure I have to get this under control before adding any corals.

Never used Phosphate E or Liquid Phos-ban but thinking about it, Also, thinking about using GFO, not sure how much to use and more concerned about the ongoing cost associated with using any of these methods since my actual water volume is 550gallons. Besides using Chemipure carbon = which is not cheap but worth it since it lasts a good while I am curious what others would do?
How much GFO would I need ?

 

[dstockwell]

Phosphate E

 

[Fish Think Pink]

So i've been one to use natural method to run a reef tank but on my 400 gallon the PO are just out of control.
I dont have many corals (removed most and can remove them all if needed).

Hanna ULR showed 200 (last week), I made a 25% waterchange and reduced feeding, and yesterday I am still getting a blinking 200 on the ULR checker.

I am planning on making a large refugium in my sump and eventually hope that will be enough to stabilize the PO. I also want to upgrade the return pump (basement sump) bc I am not getting much turnover which is for sure creating a build up. I am sure my rockwork is leeching a ton of PO bc PO where high before adding fish. Tank has had water for 11 month but ran Hyposalinity so technically tank is only 4 months old. Not one to chase # but know for sure I have to get this under control before adding any corals.

Never used Phosphate E or Liquid Phos-ban but thinking about it, Also, thinking about using GFO, not sure how much to use and more concerned about the ongoing cost associated with using any of these methods since my actual water volume is 550gallons. Besides using Chemipure carbon = which is not cheap but worth it since it lasts a good while I am curious what others would do?
How much GFO would I need ?

Can you get an independent evaluation of your phosphate? Perhaps LFS? What are your other water parameters? Nitrates esp? There is an expected ratio between those two values.

You wrote below which is not very telling ... what if that number were 1000 and you did 25% water change:
Hanna ULR showed 200 (last week), I made a 25% waterchange and reduced feeding, and yesterday I am still getting a blinking 200 on the ULR checker

I've used this to knock it back:

Phosphate Rx | Melev's Reef

melevsreef.com

It's important to have everything in balance. Also, TAKE YOUR TIME. It didn't get out of whack overnight and it should not drop to reasonable overnight either.

Take a deep breath and you'll work it out

For me, biodigest & bioptim every two weeks with microbacter 7 in alternating week into both tank and the bio ball aquamax XL reactor with pump, combined with daily vodka dosing and planted refugium on 24 hour light cycle help with both my nitrates and phosphates.

 

[Pico bam]

I second phosphate e, it's what I use but tangs can be sensitive to it from time to time. Best to be dosed in a fine micron filter sock or directly into the skimmer.

You would need a crap ton of gfo, phosphate e is going to many times cheaper and more effective just take it slow and nock it down over several doses. What are your nitrates?

 

[Spare time]

I'd rather use gfo since I don't think lanthanum chloride is understood well enough in terms of its potential impact on things like fish. I just seems hazardous to me. GFO is also easier as you set it up and let it go. Its not some disastrous product like some claim. You just don't want to use an extreme amount of it. I also implore you to think what is better, healthier animals or "natural" filtration. Natural does not equal better.

 

[Garf]

Why are you measuring in parts per billion? Wouldn’t a higher range one be more appropriate?

 

[Miami Reef]

I HIGHLY recommend high capacity GFO in a reactor.

 

[Pico bam]

If the lanthanum chloride precipitates it sticks to tangs gills and strangles them essentially. Witch is why it's important to use reef safe stuff and a fine micron filter sock or small doses directly into the skimmer. It's safe as long as you use it properly. It's the go to for large aquariums imo because of its cost effectiveness.

2liters Phosphate E will remove 1ppm phosphate in 8000 Gallons of water. 60-85$

You could easily go threw a several Gallons of gfo likely more in the time it takes go threw that much phosphate E. It would cost several hundred dollars and you need a reactor and a pump.

Also never get any contaminants into any liquid phosphate remover, such as aquarium water.

I'm not pushing for one or another just sharing my 2 cents. Good luck, with high po4 it's hard to grow just about any coral with a skeletal structure in me experience. Same with low ph.

 

[Ashish Patel]

If the lanthanum chloride precipitates it sticks to tangs gills and strangles them essentially. Witch is why it's important to use reef safe stuff and a fine micron filter sock or small doses directly into the skimmer. It's safe as long as you use it properly. It's the go to for large aquariums imo because of its cost effectiveness.

2liters Phosphate E will remove 1ppm phosphate in 8000 Gallons of water. 60-85$

You could easily go threw a several Gallons of gfo likely more in the time it takes go threw that much phosphate E. It would cost several hundred dollars and you need a reactor and a pump.

Also never get any contaminants into any liquid phosphate remover, such as aquarium water.

I'm not pushing for one or another just sharing my 2 cents. Good luck, with high po4 it's hard to grow just about any coral with a skeletal structure in me experience. Same with low ph.

I know Brightwells a reputable company but I just find there products are way to watered down. Those numbers you mentioned prove that id be just adding saturated product. For example, I tried there Nitrate product and had to dose about X6 more caps full compared to seachem flourish nitrogen for same result. two little fishies made a new product (I believe probably the same as Phosphate E) and there figures where very impressive. like a gallon of Liquid Phosphan would take 1PPM down in 45000 gallons of water (Dont quote me on that but it was pretty impressive). Not a fan of products that try to pull a fast one.

You saying that Lanthanum chloride can potentially effect my Tangs is something I absolutely can't have happen. My phosphates where at 60PPB last month or .06ppm, so I know I can get back there naturally it will just take time. I may just get GFO or liquid phosphan and add a refugium while things stablize in hopefully 1 month. Then I can start adding my acros. My Stylo is doing fine in this environment suprisingly, I lost 2 montis but dont think it was from the PO, I overdid the garlic my frozen and went to town feeding them and realized the white stuff in the poop that doesnt desolve was garlic cloves and it just build up, combined with ramping my lights corals had a hard time opening up. Crazy things is I consider myself an expert but a new system always put you back in check - no one is really an expert lol

 

[Pico bam]

I know Brightwells a reputable company but I just find there products are way to watered down. Those numbers you mentioned prove that id be just adding saturated product. For example, I tried there Nitrate product and had to dose about X6 more caps full compared to seachem flourish nitrogen for same result. two little fishies made a new product (I believe probably the same as Phosphate E) and there figures where very impressive. like a gallon of Liquid Phosphan would take 1PPM down in 45000 gallons of water. Plus I buy Brightwells Lugols solution and for the past 5 bottles the pipette bulbs always tears before half of the bottle is gone. Not a fan of products that try to pull a fast one!

I get what your saying, I always thought that brightwells made some potent stuff, though tbh I tried there neophos and neonitrate when my nutrients bottomed out and they were fairly week. I think it just depends what product you use from each manufacturers lineup. Personally I thought there phosphate e is fairly potent that and there two part solutions.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I HIGHLY recommend high capacity GFO in a reactor.

What brand to you suggest? Bc my original thought is to just get some crap online thats a good deal. Then I realize I did that with carbon and realize just how great Chemi-pure product is compared to the other stuff that leechs back into the system.

I know Rowa phos is probably the Safest and most trusted brand but dang its pricy. I think id need a good amount too. Not concerned about stripping it too quickly either bc i Have 2 other tanks that I can always move the corals.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I get what your saying, I always thought that brightwells made some potent stuff, though tbh I tried there neophos and neonitrate when my nutrients bottomed out and they were fairly week. I think it just depends what product you use from each manufacturers lineup. Personally I thought there phosphate e is fairly potent that and there two part solutions.

If you think BW phosphate E is strong than check out this stuff. curious if anyone has tried both!

The 500 ml bottle of PhosBan-L will remove 1 ppm of Phosphate from 6000 gallons, and the Gallon size removes 1 ppm from 45,000 gallons.

 

[sdreef]

So i've been one to use natural method to run a reef tank but on my 400 gallon the PO are just out of control.
I dont have many corals (removed most and can remove them all if needed).

Hanna ULR showed 200 (last week), I made a 25% waterchange and reduced feeding, and yesterday I am still getting a blinking 200 on the ULR checker.

I am planning on making a large refugium in my sump and eventually hope that will be enough to stabilize the PO. I also want to upgrade the return pump (basement sump) bc I am not getting much turnover which is for sure creating a build up. I am sure my rockwork is leeching a ton of PO bc PO where high before adding fish. Tank has had water for 11 month but ran Hyposalinity so technically tank is only 4 months old. Not one to chase # but know for sure I have to get this under control before adding any corals.

Never used Phosphate E or Liquid Phos-ban but thinking about it, Also, thinking about using GFO, not sure how much to use and more concerned about the ongoing cost associated with using any of these methods since my actual water volume is 550gallons. Besides using Chemipure carbon = which is not cheap but worth it since it lasts a good while I am curious what others would do?
How much GFO would I need ?

I don't think phosphates at 0.2 ppm are a major problem. Have you tried any corals, I don't believe that number would be prohibitive.

I've used TM Elimi-phos which is a lanthanum based product in the past, but have moved to primarily GFO in a reactor. I change once every two weeks. What other methods of nutrient export are you using?

 

[Ashish Patel]

Why are you measuring in parts per billion? Wouldn’t a higher range one be more appropriate?

Using this checker for 5 years, its measures very low PO but also pretty high (up to .5PPM).
I think the newer ones have a PPM indicator but first time I ever had it going up to 200 (blinking)
I tested it one month ago and its as at 60 (.18PPM). I reduced light intensity to 25% to help with algae and all algae disappeared in the tank and I am thinking my PO where close to 0, turns out they where building up even more bc nothing was consuming them in the tank and my snails and tangs where just eating 100% of the algae. I ramped up the lights to 60% bc my snails and urchins need food source.

 

[Miami Reef]

What brand to you suggest? Bc my original thought is to just get some crap online thats a good deal. Then I realize I did that with carbon and realize just how great Chemi-pure product is compared to the other stuff that leechs back into the system.

I know Rowa phos is probably the Safest and most trusted brand but dang its pricy. I think id need a good amount too. Not concerned about stripping it too quickly either bc i Have 2 other tanks that I can always move the corals.

Get the BRS one! My phosphates were .18ppm, and I used a quarter cup, which dropped to .02ppm in 1-2 days. My goal was around 0.10ppm.

I really like GFO; it’s very effective.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I don't think phosphates at 0.2 ppm are a major problem. Have you tried any corals, I don't believe that number would be prohibitive.

I've used TM Elimi-phos which is a lanthanum based product in the past, but have moved to primarily GFO in a reactor. I change once every two weeks. What other methods of nutrient export are you using?

Pretty bad right now - nothing! lol , I build a crappy DIY algae scrubber (few weeks ago) but didnt work good only bc I was not willing to sacrifice as much flow from my return pump. Didnt realize you need to put alot of flow through a scrubber. I have a skimmer, the massive bag of chemipure blue, and thats it

 

[Miami Reef]

Oh, and my tank is 260 gallons. I think GFO is awesome. Plus, no risk to the tangs, which is even more savings if you account for the folks who lost their fish.

 

[Pico bam]

And here I was thinking 200ppb was 2ppm had to think twice. Lol

 

[Ashish Patel]

Maybe I need to scale back on all this home made seafood. I did go heavy on tilapia this time

 

[Ashish Patel]

And here I was thinking 200ppb was 2ppm had to think twice. Lol

well its actually 0.613 PPM , I imagine it probably alot higher bc its very easy to see its BLUE. Usually It just looks like clear water after mixing the reagent. I trust this Checker alot and when its at 0, its actually at 0, which was my old tank problem. surprising this tank is larger, better, and has barbottom. Crazy part is my tank is crystal clear and not that out of control on algae, Tangs and 12 big turbos, and 2 urchins eat all the excess algae and add to the nutrient problem.