Popcorn ceiling killing my hard coral?

[Wiz]

My sand bed was built based on Ron shimeks article on deep sand beds. The bottom five inches is sugar find who lytx and. The top inches regular lives and just to keep it from swelling. There are plenty of stirrers in their nassarius snails hermit crabs Emerald crabs my new Eunice worm a mantis shrimp and so forth. I did add Miracle mud about a year ago but did not see much of an effect from it. Descend is still very live with worms and bugs and the fuge has been doing fantastic. I would not dream of removing any part of my sand bed.

I am also pretty sure that my phosphates are not zero. Undetectable on my test kit which is the Salifert is just fine with me.

I will give the target feeding a shot

 

[Wiz]

I have vodka dosed in the past but not recently. My refugium is the only way that I export nitrate and phosphate. Other than my skimmer. Skimmer and fuge with a small bag of carbon is all I run

Forgot to ask, are you dosing any form of carbon, as that would change my approach a little?
Edit: in fact perhaps broader than that, what are you doing for your phosphate export?

 

[david.faik]

My sand bed was built based on Ron shimeks article on deep sand beds. The bottom five inches is sugar find who lytx and. The top inches regular lives and just to keep it from swelling. There are plenty of stirrers in their nassarius snails hermit crabs Emerald crabs my new Eunice worm a mantis shrimp and so forth. I did add Miracle mud about a year ago but did not see much of an effect from it. Descend is still very live with worms and bugs and the fuge has been doing fantastic. I would not dream of removing any part of my sand bed.

I am also pretty sure that my phosphates are not zero. Undetectable on my test kit which is the Salifert is just fine with me.

I will give the target feeding a shot

Your fuge (haha, spell check keeps doing fudge), looks great, and I'm sure your creepy crawly critters are having a ball in there. The critters are all about turning it over.

I felt the same as you, reading Shimek. However doing further reading I changed my opinion and do replace some sand every two years, and saw benefits from that. Please don't take my opinion, just suggest do a little reading on the latest thinking and see if it is anything for you.

Also my DSB was alive and kicking pre and post changing out some sand. I was so sceptical of this that at first I just added another inch of very fine sand on top as a compromise that wouldn't give me a panic attack, that then sold me on it.

 

[Wiz]

Always open to change. As long as it's well researched. Any articles you recomend?

Your fuge (haha, spell check keeps doing fudge), looks great, and I'm sure your creepy crawly critters are having a ball in there. The critters are all about turning it over.

I felt the same as you, reading Shimek. However doing further reading I changed my opinion and do replace some sand every two years, and saw benefits from that. Please don't take my opinion, just suggest do a little reading on the latest thinking and see if it is anything for you.

Also my DSB was alive and kicking pre and post changing out some sand. I was so sceptical of this that at first I just added another inch of very fine sand on top as a compromise that wouldn't give me a panic attack, that then sold me on it.

 

[david.faik]

I have vodka dosed in the past but not recently. My refugium is the only way that I export nitrate and phosphate. Other than my skimmer. Skimmer and fuge with a small bag of carbon is all I run

Ok, so no carbon to confuse matters. Just skimming and mowing the algae lawn.

I'd certainly then look at that phosphate test kit to rule that out as a high priority.

If you are really minuscule phosphate, then the feeding could help. I don't do much vodka, about a quarter of what's recommended. I do add some vitamin C very carefully, and find it gets me a few diatoms which then either feed my corals, skim out or get eaten in the DSB. So my feeling is from what I can see that it makes some coral food available until the skimmer gets it. Would probably only look at that if you are certain it is starvation, and continue spot feeding until your corals are plump again (if that is the issue)

 

[david.faik]

Always open to change. As long as it's well researched. Any articles you recomend?

Not being too scared to move a bit of the sand bed was from the New York Steelo YouTube videos. He's great, but Shimek and never change any sand. He got me to do a DSB, plus the articles on Wet Web Media.

I'll search for the threads on why replacing small parts is worth doing. I don't really store them. The one that got the light bulb lit was the one that explained how some of the DSB is slowly dissolved as buffer.

Late here in Holland but I'll see what I can find you, if not this night later

 

[david.faik]

"* Note: you must be mindful too of the fast rate of dissolution of some sand beds. In most healthy systems, fine aragonite has a "half-life" of 18-24 months. That means that after two years, perhaps, a 3" sand bed will have been reduced to 1.5" and possibly failing in its duties (another unheralded cause for the unfair criticisms of mismanaged DSBs). For this reason, aquarists seeking optimum nitrate control are advised to resist being frugal and apply honestly deep sand beds, and adding more substrate as necessary in time."

This from Wet Web Media, who I rate as super gurus, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm

Edit: As I remember it, not everything in arogonite sand can dissolve, so eventually it follows one will be left with more of that stuff, meaning the composition of the DSB changes. In nature more shells, coral skeletons and waste from those parrot fish munching corals would be topping up the sand.

That said, in this hobby just because something seems to make sense doesn't mean it works, LOL!

 

[david.faik]

I think the rest were on some good DSB threads, unfortunately they mostly get lots of other comments from bare bottom people explaining why the science says it won't work LOL, which are annoying

 

[david.faik]

Again, I'm no fanatical proponent of any "system", just saying it helped me and my be worth a little research on your part.

 

[Gator1970]

I don't know if the ceiling could be a concern or not, but I wouldn't give up looking for other, more common causes.

I know a little about the nature of asbestos from work, and can't imagine how it could be causing problems in a tank, unless there is something else in the ceiling compound, lead paint maybe?

 

[Wiz]

No worries, I think you've provided me with enough. I can do the research. Thank you

Not being too scared to move a bit of the sand bed was from the New York Steelo YouTube videos. He's great, but Shimek and never change any sand. He got me to do a DSB, plus the articles on Wet Web Media.

I'll search for the threads on why replacing small parts is worth doing. I don't really store them. The one that got the light bulb lit was the one that explained how some of the DSB is slowly dissolved as buffer.

Late here in Holland but I'll see what I can find you, if not this night later

 

[Wiz]

Maybe. Idk

I know a little about the nature of asbestos from work, and can't imagine how it could be causing problems in a tank, unless there is something else in the ceiling compound, lead paint maybe?

 

[GoFish]

I didn't see this brought up yet. Wondering what you measure salinity with? Has it been cross checked by another instrument? And what about Alk...

 

[Orcus Varuna]

Couldn't possibly see asbestos being the cause. Depending on which of the six recognized asbestos minerals in question they are composed of Mg, O, Si, Fe, Ca, Na etc... So nothing harmful. What makes Asbestos carcinogenic to humans is the shape these six minerals take when they form fibers leads them to being easily trapped in the cells of your lungs When inhaled. Once the cells that have accumulated sufficient asbestos go to divide the asbestos interferes with cell mitosis leading the mesothelioma based cancers. Sorry for the long winded explanation just wanted to eliminate that as a possible cause for you. As another poster pointed out there could be something else in the paint causing your issues. Also like RHF said look elsewhere for more common causes. With a DSB, fuge, running chemical media, high Alk you have a bunch of possible other sources you are overlooking. If it were me I would follow a subtractive approach and remove one thing at a time and observe. I would probably start with the DSB/fuge. Keep it running just separate it from the display for a few weeks and see what happens. You can always link them again. Hope this helped!

 

[Yojoe10]

Just chiming in that I have had similar issues for past couple of years in my tank. My system is also run on nothing but my fuge with miracle mud and chaeto lit 24/7. Only difference is my nitrates are undetectable and my phosphates are low (less than .03) which is exact opposite of your problem. In the six years my tank has been running I'd say it has thrived for maybe a year of that total. I've not been happy with my tank and I'm starting to question the compatibility of macroalgaes and corals in a reef system. One video in particular made me start thinking about this. I'll try to find and post. In short the video discusses that there are microbes present on all corals that are harmless in low numbers. However, studies have shown that these microbes increase greatly in number on the corals when vast amounts of algae are in proximity and lacking in herbivores to keep in check. Apparently the algae release "food" that feeds the microbes which consume large amounts of oxygen and "suffocate" the coral. Anyways this is how I read it. Makes me wonder about running large amounts of macro in a reef system. Ill find that video and post if you're interested in further study.

 

[Blue Spot Octopus]

Have you used any paint that has anti bacterial agents in it?

 

[Wiz]

A refractometer which I have checked against a friend of mine's. And I have both Red Sea and salifert alkalinity test

I didn't see this brought up yet. Wondering what you measure salinity with? Has it been cross checked by another instrument? And what about Alk...

 

[Wiz]

Personally I believe that mydsb fuge is what has kept my system so fantastic for years. It has been running for years now. I am 90% sure that is not the problem. I may eventually try it just to prove to other people that that is not it

Couldn't possibly see asbestos being the cause. Depending on which of the six recognized asbestos minerals in question they are composed of Mg, O, Si, Fe, Ca, Na etc... So nothing harmful. What makes Asbestos carcinogenic to humans is the shape these six minerals take when they form fibers leads them to being easily trapped in the cells of your lungs When inhaled. Once the cells that have accumulated sufficient asbestos go to divide the asbestos interferes with cell mitosis leading the mesothelioma based cancers. Sorry for the long winded explanation just wanted to eliminate that as a possible cause for you. As another poster pointed out there could be something else in the paint causing your issues. Also like RHF said look elsewhere for more common causes. With a DSB, fuge, running chemical media, high Alk you have a bunch of possible other sources you are overlooking. If it were me I would follow a subtractive approach and remove one thing at a time and observe. I would probably start with the DSB/fuge. Keep it running just separate it from the display for a few weeks and see what happens. You can always link them again. Hope this helped!

 

[Wiz]

Not to my knowledge. But I have no idea what that ceiling is made of

Have you used any paint that has anti bacterial agents in it?

 

[CodyRVA]

Sorry for your troubles, following along.