Pressure on False Claim Products

[rtparty]

While I do appreciate the effort on this battle (?) fight, whatever. I also find it equally hilarious. The entirety of half of these companies is junk science or good science applied wrong. Here is a junk stat, 93% of this hobby is based on false claims. With certain companies being a bigger offender. It's not just the products either, some people famous in this hobby are nothing more than con men. It's fascinating. You would have to make it a full time job to go after all these claims one by one. Then why stop there? Go after food, cosmetics, pharmaceutical. This is the equivalent of one mosquito on the back of a bull. It does nothing. There is no greater harm than time wasted.

Cool. Don't participate then. Easy enough

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

While I do appreciate the effort on this battle (?) fight, whatever. I also find it equally hilarious. The entirety of half of these companies is junk science or good science applied wrong. Here is a junk stat, 93% of this hobby is based on false claims. With certain companies being a bigger offender. It's not just the products either, some people famous in this hobby are nothing more than con men. It's fascinating. You would have to make it a full time job to go after all these claims one by one. Then why stop there? Go after food, cosmetics, pharmaceutical. This is the equivalent of one mosquito on the back of a bull. It does nothing. There is no greater harm than time wasted.

This logic is almost equivalent to "what difference is it going to make? There is still another problem." Well not there is one, two, ten, fifty less problems.

While it may seem insignificant at the beginning it all has to start somewhere.

This forum is for the reefing hobby/industry so that's where we are keeping our focus.

 

[Devisissy]

So you think the company gives a crap? You think pestering them to change a label is somehow changing anything? No all they care about is money. Just stop buying from them. Simple. That's how it's won, and that's why I am amused at all this talk about what does what and how this chemical changes that. They don't care! The company could not be less bothered than if you farted in the car with them.

 

[Miami Reef]

So you think the company gives a crap? You think pestering them to change a label is somehow changing anything? No all they care about is money. Just stop buying from them. Simple. That's how it's won, and that's why I am amused at all this talk about what does what and how this chemical changes that. They don't care! The company could not be less bothered than if you farted in the car with them.

With your attitude we’d be stuck living in caves, hunting and gathering.

 

[Devisissy]

With your attitude we’d be stuck living in caves, hunting and gathering.

I am telling you to win against this misinformation, DONT BUY THEIR CRAP. That will get their attention. I'm envious you seem to think a company gives a crap about the product though. Maybe when they first started.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So you think the company gives a crap? You think pestering them to change a label is somehow changing anything? No all they care about is money. Just stop buying from them. Simple. That's how it's won, and that's why I am amused at all this talk about what does what and how this chemical changes that. They don't care! The company could not be less bothered than if you farted in the car with them.

Jack Kent of Brightwell clearly cares about these issues. I cannot be sure we will come to a mutually agreeable resolution, but we are working toward it.

 

[rtparty]

I am telling you to win against this misinformation, DONT BUY THEIR CRAP. That will get their attention. I'm envious you seem to think a company gives a crap about the product though. Maybe when they first started.

Every hobbyist on R2R could stop buying Brightwell and it won't dent their sales. Going after their ego will certainly wake them up

 

[Bugger]

Sorry totally off the topic but, can some explain what? is in Vibrant? I thought it was bacteria. Did you find out something different.

 

[Nonya]

Sorry totally off the topic but, can some explain what? is in Vibrant? I thought it was bacteria. Did you find out something different.

See post #121

 

[Dan_P]

I will port any important results in testing Brightwell Boost pH plus to this thread, as needed, but for now I’ll keep most of the testing discussion and results in the testing thread.

Jack did some testing already and I posted it there. He also indicated he would be willing to reimburse folks buying the product just for this testing by giving them some other product they may want or provide it directly .

Normally, a company directly providing a product would be frowned upon for testing, but in this case I’m not concerned because the concern is not how potent a product is, but whether any product can accomplish what is claimed. But getting it from a third party is likely better anyway.

If you want help from Brightwell to do this testing, just post to the testing thread and I’ll figure out how to proceed based on numbers of folks, etc.

Experimental testing of Brightwell Boost pH +

This is the proposed experiment: take some reef tank water, that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, pH 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in the range you suggest (7.7 to 10 dKH) some artificial seawater that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in...

www.reef2reef.com

Chemicals on the way and testing probably starts next week.

 

[DCR]

My speculation is that Brightwell will argue (or is assuming) that the buyer will reduce their other alkalinity additives like carbonate and/or bicarbonate and replace it with the hydroxide in pH Boost to maintain constant alkalinity. In effect it is just another high pH alkalinity additive (hydroxide) like Randy's recipe. Not saying it is honest but "technically" that is how they could make their claim.

 

[rtparty]

My speculation is that Brightwell will argue (or is assuming) that the buyer will reduce their other alkalinity additives like carbonate and/or bicarbonate and replace it with the hydroxide in pH Boost to maintain constant alkalinity. In effect it is just another high pH alkalinity additive (hydroxide) like Randy's recipe. Not saying it is honest but "technically" that is how they could make their claim.

Their claim is pretty straightforward. It increases pH without increasing alkalinity. Says nothing about stopping other additives. Their claim is literally it WILL NOT raise alkalinity.

 

[Miami Reef]

Their claim is pretty straightforward. It increases pH without increasing alkalinity. Says nothing about stopping other additives. Their claim is literally it WILL NOT raise alkalinity.

Exactly this! No need to look much further in between the lines.

 

[jason2459]

to win against this misinformation,

How are we to know what is really misinformation with out someone calling it out with facts.

 

[Hossman]

I agree with the reasons some reasons you gave as to why companies do and don't list ingredients. I'm more focused on those that don't list them and don't respond for more than a year after "we'll get back to you". I did see Randy's comment saying it seems to be similar to Algaefix. Wouldn't copper have a lot of the same/similar negatives? Maybe other things like ReefFlux? It's too bad we don't have the laboratories necessary to prove that some products, not necessarily the products mentioned here, are snake oil. But when a significant percentage of people lose fish, corals, etc., I try to find alternatives. I have too much invested to risk using certain magic potions. I'm thankful for threads like this, and for the various points of view.

I don’t know but I am getting over Dino’s and have a bunch of hair Algae to get rid of. The owner at the fish store I go to said he uses Vibrant and he said he doesn’t care what the heck is in it but it sure does work good. I will be dosing is next week.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Good for you, lol

 

[workhz]

With your attitude we’d be stuck living in caves, hunting and gathering.

So you agree with him

 

[TheHarold]

Keep challenging claims. Its important.

 

[TokenReefer]

I had assumed this thread was for the people who are not reading it, oblivious to the science, wanting a nice tank and taking the manufacturers word for it. Us here not buying the product doesn't help the rest. If labeling etc can be changed, it might. Keep going!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I had assumed this thread was for the people who are not reading it, oblivious to the science, wanting a nice tank and taking the manufacturers word for it. Us here not buying the product doesn't help the rest. If labeling etc can be changed, it might. Keep going!

Yeah, but it's more fun to jump into a discussion after 14 pages and ridicule the premise and the people involved...

Talk about a waste of time!