Putting Pond Matrix to the test now that Marinepure is out!

[Roggio]

After Marinepure was confirmed to release Aluminum by Ryan at BRS I decided to put Seachem's Matrix to the test. There's tons of great reviews out there that claim Nitrates dropped in less than a week at times. While I don't think this will be the case I decided to run my own experiment.

The tank will run with no additives, just top off water. No filtration, only a heater to keep the tank at 80 degree. (The warmer temp helps breed bacteria)

I originally planned on adding two small clowns to keep a constant flow of ammonia (and I might later) but I feel the nitrite is too high. This isnt a real enough experiment to risk any little guys.
___________

Tank background

The tank ran as a temporary holding tank while I was moving my fish around. In that time the Ammonia skyrocketed and the fish were pulled out. Since then it has just been cycling for almost two months. The tank has two MP40's to ensure flow and proper gas exchange.

Seachem recommends two liters per 200 gallons. I will be running 20 liters inside media bags. the tank has roughly 100 gallons of water in it.

http://www.seachem.com/pond-matrix.php

Ammonia 0

Nitrite >1

Nitrate >50

(Red Sea)

If anyone has any input or ideas I would love to hear it! It's temping to add a carbon source to feed the bacteria.

 

[bif24701]

After Marinepure was confirmed to release Aluminum by Ryan at BRS I decided to put Seachem's Matrix to the test. There's tons of great reviews out there that claim Nitrates dropped in less than a week at times. While I don't think this will be the case I decided to run my own experiment.

The tank will run with no additives, just top off water. No filtration, only a heater to keep the tank at 80 degree. (The warmer temp helps breed bacteria)

I originally planned on adding two small clowns to keep a constant flow of ammonia (and I might later) but I feel the nitrite is too high. This isnt a real enough experiment to risk any little guys.
___________

Tank background

The tank ran as a temporary holding tank while I was moving my fish around. In that time the Ammonia skyrocketed and the fish were pulled out. Since then it has just been cycling for almost two months. The tank has two MP40's to ensure flow and proper gas exchange.

Seachem recommends two liters per 200 gallons. I will be running 20 liters inside media bags. the tank has roughly 100 gallons of water in it.

http://www.seachem.com/pond-matrix.php

Ammonia 0

Nitrite >1

Nitrate >50

(Red Sea)

If anyone has any input or ideas I would love to hear it! It's temping to add a carbon source to feed the bacteria.

When and where did Ryan confirm this? And was he able to link it to any adverse effects?

 

[Mombo]

I used pure ammonia that I got from Ace Hardware to dose my tank with ammonia to increase the bacteria population and keep it fed before I added fish to the tank.

 

[Roggio]

When and where did Ryan confirm this? And was he able to link it to any adverse effects?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...brstv-investigates.307515/page-4#post-3803880

Here's the link

 

[Roggio]

I used pure ammonia that I got from Ace Hardware to dose my tank with ammonia to increase the bacteria population and keep it fed before I added fish to the tank.

Great suggestion, this was done when the tank was first cycled. I added ammonia until the tank cycled it back down to zero within a 24 hour period.

 

[drawman]

Following. I guess the big problem I see with the experiment is you don't have a control. Will be interesting to see what happens either way good luck!

My vote would be longer than 8 weeks

 

[CNDReef]

Tagging along

 

[bif24701]

Let's see where this goes.

 

[jason2459]

Just to clarify, this is just to see how well pumice stone is at homing bacteria necessary for de-nitrification right? Pumice stone has a lot of surface area for sure.

I currently have 4L of matrix and 4L of pond matrix in my system fwiw.

 

[Scott.h]

I used pure ammonia that I got from Ace Hardware to dose my tank with ammonia to increase the bacteria population and keep it fed before I added fish to the tank.

its not the same thing..

 

[Roggio]

Just to clarify, this is just to see how well pumice stone is at homing bacteria necessary for de-nitrification right? Pumice stone has a lot of surface area for sure.

I currently have 4L of matrix and 4L of pond matrix in my system fwiw.

Yes, while there's some Haitian rock in there (not really porous at all) the hope is the abundance of Matrix will provide the environment for the denitrifying bacteria. Nitrites are up too, so it should be interesting to see if there's an affect on them. In my experience you must have at least some phosphates to help lower nitrates. I feel a lot of people miss this when running GFO.

 

[Roggio]

its not the same thing..

Can you back this up? Most LRS in my area hand out ammonia to people cycling a new tank. I have also used this in the past with a lot of success.

Here's Doctor Tim saying otherwise.


I dont know why it's not starting at 3:50 (click here)

There's also a plethora of Marine Ammonia products on the market.

Are you suggesting the ammonia at the store is somehow a different than the NH3 NH4 found all over the universe?

 

[jason2459]

Yes, while there's some Haitian rock in there (not really porous at all) the hope is the abundance of Matrix will provide the environment for the denitrifying bacteria. Nitrites are up too, so it should be interesting to see if there's an affect on them. In my experience you must have at least some phosphates to help lower nitrates. I feel a lot of people miss this when running GFO.

Also, keep in mind GFO can be good for picking up more then just PO4. To keep Nitrates and PO4 at my target levels I just feed a lot. All other life besides just bacteria like my approach better then dosing nitrates or phosphates.

 

[Roggio]

Also, keep in mind GFO can be good for picking up more then just PO4. To keep Nitrates and PO4 at my target levels I just feed a lot. All other life besides just bacteria like my approach better then dosing nitrates or phosphates.

Hmm I have always had 0 PO4 on my systems. What else does it bind to? Organics and metals? I bought a huge thing of RawPhos a long time ago and have never had a reason to run it.

I can't wait to get to the point where I would need to dose nitrates and P04. I'm getting close 0-0-(2-5) and my system has only been running a month now.

 

[jason2459]

Hmm I have always had 0 PO4 on my systems. What else does it bind to? Organics and metals? I bought a huge thing of RawPhos a long time ago and have never had a reason to run it.

I can't wait to get to the point where I would need to dose nitrates and P04. I'm getting close 0-0-(2-5) and my system has only been running a month now.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php

There's also some good posts by Boomer I believe on the RC forum discussing GFO and metals, arsenic, etc. I'd have to search for those posts if interested.

 

[Roggio]

Someone on another thread posted this link @cFloor's reef utilizing matrix as one of it's main components. He has a pretty minimal rock structure. He mention's using 4L of Matrix on the 6th page for those interested.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cfloors-190gal-sps.206411/


Feel free to post your own or any threads utilizing matrix

 

[cFloor]

Someone on another thread posted this link @cFloor's reef utilizing matrix as one of it's main components. He has a pretty minimal rock structure. He mention's using 4L of Matrix on the 6th page for those interested.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cfloors-190gal-sps.206411/


Feel free to post your own or any threads utilizing matrix

I started using a very small amount of matrix and was so pleased with it, I continued to add more as I removed live rock from my system. I have upgraded tanks now to a 250 gallon and I am using about 50 pounds of live rock and about 34 liters of Matrix in two large reactors and large media bags in my sump. Ideally I would have it all in reactors and one day I might make that upgrade.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cfloors-250g-sps.309733/

 

[pickupman66]

I have 2 liters of the Matrix in my sump. while my nitrates in my bare bottom tank hover in the 10-20 range, I have never seen them much more than that. I feed 2 frozen cubes daily with a clownfish pair, potters angel, lineatus tang, filefish and a chromis.

 

[Roggio]

I started using a very small amount of matrix and was so pleased with it, I continued to add more as I removed live rock from my system. I have upgraded tanks now to a 250 gallon and I am using about 50 pounds of live rock and about 34 liters of Matrix in two large reactors and large media bags in my sump. Ideally I would have it all in reactors and one day I might make that upgrade.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cfloors-250g-sps.309733/

Wow, thank you for the reply and input. Beautiful tank by the way. 34liters! Wow! I will have 28 in my system when this experiment is done.

Do you dose a carbon source?

Did you seed the rocks with bacteria?

How long was it until you noticed results?

Some people claim the detritus buildup is the downfall of these other medias vs marinepure. I run filter socks and have not seen a detritus buildup. I think if I ever have an issue I will just suck it out using a gravel vacuum when I clean my sump or just remove the media and clean the sump. I have also read a lot of success with people dosing Bio-Mate to remove excess detritus.

What's your opinion on this experiment? What would you do differently?

 

[Roggio]

I have 2 liters of the Matrix in my sump. while my nitrates in my bare bottom tank hover in the 10-20 range, I have never seen them much more than that. I feed 2 frozen cubes daily with a clownfish pair, potters angel, lineatus tang, filefish and a chromis.

10-20 is in the higher range but not bad for how much youre feeding to such a small tank. Have you considered adding more matrix? What about a carbon source? Zeostart, vodka, and bacteria dosing have worked extremely well for me. I watched the normal phases of cycling a tank come and go quickly. I've only done one water change in my new tanks existence and I've watched the nitrates drop from over 50 to less than 5 in a months time. I've added a lot of biological media such as marinepure and matrix in the last two weeks (which is when I saw the drop get dramatic) but I don't know if this was just the timeline for denitrifying bacteria or the media really played that much of a role.