Quarantine Protocol using an established system

[Thisisfine]

Learned the lesson the hard way earlier this year and ended up having to take my 120g to hypo. It's been back up and going at normal conditions for several months now though I'm recently battling Alk (hanna reagent went bad and raised too high) and elevated nitrates.

During hypo I set up a 40b for inverts and what little coral I had. Now that all of that has been transferred back to the 120g - I have a few questions regarding quarantine.

The 40g that is already set up with a canister filter, gyre, heater, really small Petco UV, ammonia badge and surface skimmer. It also contains sand and a little bit of rock from the 120 I used to provide surface area of beneficial bacteria.

- should I remove the sand/rock?
-how much fish can you safely quarantine for 45days - 2 months?
- are dividers neccessary?

The LFS I'd be purchasing from is ~3hrs away

Ideally I'd like to add another wrasse or two (iridis, rhomboid), a tile fish, trigger, vanderbilt chromis and either an angel or tang. All being dependent on what I can locate between the 2 stores.

thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Learned the lesson the hard way earlier this year and ended up having to take my 120g to hypo. It's been back up and going at normal conditions for several months now though I'm recently battling Alk (hanna reagent went bad and raised too high) and elevated nitrates.

During hypo I set up a 40b for inverts and what little coral I had. Now that all of that has been transferred back to the 120g - I have a few questions regarding quarantine.

The 40g that is already set up with a canister filter, gyre, heater, really small Petco UV, ammonia badge and surface skimmer. It also contains sand and a little bit of rock from the 120 I used to provide surface area of beneficial bacteria.

- should I remove the sand/rock?
-how much fish can you safely quarantine for 45days - 2 months?
- are dividers neccessary?

The LFS I'd be purchasing from is ~3hrs away

Ideally I'd like to add another wrasse or two (iridis, rhomboid), a tile fish, trigger, vanderbilt chromis and either an angel or tang. All being dependent on what I can locate between the 2 stores.

thanks!

- should I remove the sand/rock? Remove sand and rock- yes.
-how much fish can you safely quarantine for 45days - 2 months? I would hold off with any new addition and in a 40B- 3-4 small or 2-3 med fish and maintain good water quality and I would not use a badge to sustain $50-70-100.00 in fish. Use a reliable ammonia test kit.
- are dividers neccessary? Dividers no- provide hiding for fish as dividers can at times cause injury

 

[tzabor10]

Absolutely remove everything. Especially sand and rocks as they will absorb copper. The conversation about copper QT is changing. I am a team no copper until absolutely necessary. Get the fish fat and their immune systems will be ready. Good luck

 

[Thisisfine]

- should I remove the sand/rock? Remove sand and rock- yes.
-how much fish can you safely quarantine for 45days - 2 months? I would hold off with any new addition and in a 40B- 3-4 small or 2-3 med fish and maintain good water quality and I would not use a badge to sustain $50-70-100.00 in fish. Use a reliable ammonia test kit.
- are dividers neccessary? Dividers no- provide hiding for fish as dividers can at times cause injury

Thanks! Yeah I'd still test for ammonia - badge was just already in there from the invert/coral quarantine.
Hiding spaces - throw in some pvc elbows?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks! Yeah I'd still test for ammonia - badge was just already in there from the invert/coral quarantine.
Hiding spaces - throw in some pvc elbows?

Yes

 

[Thisisfine]

Absolutely remove everything. Especially sand and rocks as they will absorb copper. The conversation about copper QT is changing. I am a team no copper until absolutely necessary. Get the fish fat and their immune systems will be ready. Good luck

Not to open a huge can of worms as I have no stance in either case (I just never want to have to hypo a 120g again using 10g at a time) but what's the argument for not applying copper? Stressful on the fish and ich always finds a way into the DT even with quarantining or just that it's not necessary with healthy fish? If you are not treating with Copper, would you just treat with prazi for parasites? Likewise, with no copper, there's not need to remove rock and sand?

Just trying to understand both sides of the subject. Thanks!

 

[Thisisfine]

Yes

Thanks!

 

[tzabor10]

Not to open a huge can of worms as I have no stance in either case (I just never want to have to hypo a 120g again using 10g at a time) but what's the argument for not applying copper? Stressful on the fish and ich always finds a way into the DT even with quarantining or just that it's not necessary with healthy fish? If you are not treating with Copper, would you just treat with prazi for parasites? Likewise, with no copper, there's not need to remove rock and sand?

Just trying to understand both sides of the subject. Thanks!

So to explain, I wanted a copper QT for my home. Wife said “No more tanks!” In her defense I’m not all neat and tidy so more mess was not going to happen. So I made the best case work. Used my messy 40 breeder as a place to fatten up the fish and get them used to being in my aquarium. Turns out the LFS store is hearing from Australia that copper is awful and most people down under are doing what I did.
Shaking my head how that woman can be right so much.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So to explain, I wanted a copper QT for my home. Wife said “No more tanks!” In her defense I’m not all neat and tidy so more mess was not going to happen. So I made the best case work. Used my messy 40 breeder as a place to fatten up the fish and get them used to being in my aquarium. Turns out the LFS store is hearing from Australia that copper is awful and most people down under are doing what I did.
Shaking my head how that woman can be right so much.

Trouble is, ionic copper is risky, chelated copper is much safer and just as effective.
People confuse the two all the time.

Coppersafe or copper power are your best bet for controlling protozoan diseases. Hypo works for ich, but not velvet.

Jay

 

[Thisisfine]

Yes

Follow up question regarding removing the sand. Is there a best approach to this? Each instance I've looked up sand removal there are discussions on throwing the tank off balance. If this is going to be a QT there's no concern here right? I just need to scoop out what I can right?

 

[The_Paradox]

Follow up question regarding removing the sand. Is there a best approach to this? Each instance I've looked up sand removal there are discussions on throwing the tank off balance. If this is going to be a QT there's no concern here right? I just need to scoop out what I can right?

I’d just vacuum it out. 3/4” hose will do it.

 

[Thisisfine]

I’d just vacuum it out. 3/4” hose will do it

As in a siphon kit or a wet vac? I don't have a sump/filter sock to return the water removed in an easy manner on this tank or is the thought to replace removed water with fresh saltwater?

Thanks!

 

[The_Paradox]

As in a siphon kit or a wet vac? I don't have a sump/filter sock to return the water removed in an easy manner on this tank or is the thought to replace removed water with fresh saltwater?

Thanks!

Either will work fine but both will require saltwater top off.

 

[Thisisfine]

Ok, so in a process to conserve water I scooped out 99% of the sand. Of course, there's lots of light sediment in the water column. I'm running the cannister to try and capture that in the filter floss and other filter compartments. Once I see what's remaining I'll siphon vac the remaining. I have a low capacity to make saltwater (no room for a mixing station). It's make 5g RODI, to bucket, salt heat and mix and repeat for up to 10g at a time or drive ~1hr to closest LFS. Once it's cleaned I'll top off with saltwater.

Next question - what can be ran in the canister during quarantine? It has filter floss, carbon, gfo, and I think nitrate or ammonia reducing pads and bio media currently. I'll remove the biomedia. Should I run the carbon/gfo or will that interfere the copper treatment and subsequent prazi? Should I use ammonia reducing pads?

Thanks!

 

[Thisisfine]

Trouble is, ionic copper is risky, chelated copper is much safer and just as effective.
People confuse the two all the time.

Coppersafe or copper power are your best bet for controlling protozoan diseases. Hypo works for ich, but not velvet.

Jay

Jay -

I had a couple of quick questions to bounce off of you when you have the time.

I removed ~98% of the sand but there's still a small trace - is this an issue for QT?

Also, looking at your current QT process thread - I am running a cannister filter. I read you said not to use carbon, ammonia reducing pads etc. What filter medium is safe in those? This was an established QT for inverts/coral but I have removed all rock and most all sand. The cannister has the recommended carbon, gfo, ammonia reducing pad and what I assume is a filter floss/water clarifier. By removing these and replacing with a new neutral filter of your recommendation - will I disrupt whatever beneficial bacterial medium I had after removing the filters/rock/sand? I have what I believe is a nitrate reducing pad tossed in the sump of my 120 I threw in in case I'd need it for a QT (was going to set up a new 29 but didn't want to hassle with a 4th tank so decided to use the empty 40b that was already up and running).


Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay -

I had a couple of quick questions to bounce off of you when you have the time.

I removed ~98% of the sand but there's still a small trace - is this an issue for QT?

Also, looking at your current QT process thread - I am running a cannister filter. I read you said not to use carbon, ammonia reducing pads etc. What filter medium is safe in those? This was an established QT for inverts/coral but I have removed all rock and most all sand. The cannister has the recommended carbon, gfo, ammonia reducing pad and what I assume is a filter floss/water clarifier. By removing these and replacing with a new neutral filter of your recommendation - will I disrupt whatever beneficial bacterial medium I had after removing the filters/rock/sand? I have what I believe is a nitrate reducing pad tossed in the sump of my 120 I threw in in case I'd need it for a QT (was going to set up a new 29 but didn't want to hassle with a 4th tank so decided to use the empty 40b that was already up and running).


Thanks!

Canister filters in a QT should be run with just media for the bacteria to live on and for mechanical filtration. These are usually foam blocks. The main requirement is that the bacteria population is sufficient to manage any ammonia produced by the fish. Can you use the nitrate block from your sump? That shoukk k d have a lot of bacteria on it and should be inert.

A little bit of sand is no issue if using coppersafe or copper power.

One thing I see missing in a lot of QT is good aeration, not just circulation. Air stones are good, or at least have the spray bar from the filter hitting the water’s surface from above.

Jay

 

[Thisisfine]

Canister filters in a QT should be run with just media for the bacteria to live on and for mechanical filtration. These are usually foam blocks. The main requirement is that the bacteria population is sufficient to manage any ammonia produced by the fish. Can you use the nitrate block from your sump? That shoukk k d have a lot of bacteria on it and should be inert.

A little bit of sand is no issue if using coppersafe or copper power.

One thing I see missing in a lot of QT is good aeration, not just circulation. Air stones are good, or at least have the spray bar from the filter hitting the water’s surface from above.

Jay

I can certainly remove the nitrate pad from the 120 and use it in the QT - wanted to make sure there were no adverse reactions binding the copper like the ammonia pads. For the cannister - I'll remove everything except the foam pads and add part of the nitrate pad from the 120g sump.

I have Fritz Coppersafe and a new hanna copper checker. I also have an air stone pump I purchased when I was going to set up the 29 for QT. I have a backpack filter (also purchased for the 29g QT) I can also run to double up filtration using that nitrate pad from the 120g in both.

Many thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I can certainly remove the nitrate pad from the 120 and use it in the QT - wanted to make sure there were no adverse reactions binding the copper like the ammonia pads. For the cannister - I'll remove everything except the foam pads and add part of the nitrate pad from the 120g sump.

I have Fritz Coppersafe and a new hanna copper checker. I also have an air stone pump I purchased when I was going to set up the 29 for QT. I have a backpack filter (also purchased for the 29g QT) I can also run to double up filtration using that nitrate pad from the 120g in both.

Many thanks!

You'll need to contact the manufacturer of the "nitrate pad". I had erroneously assumed it was an anerobic, denitrating media, but I now see that one company is selling some sort of an "infused pad" and I don't know what they infuse that with.

Jay