saltwater guppies

Paul B · Jun 27, 2015

Are these guppies reproducing in full salt water? I have kept many mollies, figure 8 puffers, scats, mono's, archerfish, bumblebees etc in full saltwater but they are by nature brackish water fish. Guppies are not and will never be. I have no problem with "you" keeping them in salt water, saw dust or battery acid as many guppies are just bred to feed other things anyway. I would imagine if they are breeding and living 4 or 5 years in full salt water, then I am wrong, and I have been wrong before.

Horn · Jun 27, 2015

In Hawaii there is a population of saltwater guppies.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 27, 2015

Horn said:
In Hawaii there is a population of saltwater guppies.

I couldn't find anything online about them. Where did you learn about them?

cu455 · Jun 27, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I do not know that they experience discomfort any more than you know that they do not. So we may just have to leave it at that.

Your simple observations do not say anything more than that you are avoiding obvious problems. When I have a headache, can you tell by looking at me? In fact. most health issues for humans do not show obvious external signals. That's why you get all sorts of other tests when you get a physical exam.

I'm not sure why you have difficulty understanding the issues of putting a freshwater or brackish fish in full strength seawater. Marine fish spend a lot of energy pumping out salt that penetrates their systems. Guppies that are put into brackish water experience cellular changes to try to adapt to the salt and be able to pump it out. This is shown in the scientific literature. Is that forced morphological change comfortable? Are they comfortable when it is completed?

Quite true. There are a few fish that freely move from full salt water to fresh and back again. They are the exception, not the rule. Guppies are not among them. Not sure what you saw, but guppies as a rule do not live in full strength seawater. Do some get swept into the ocean? Sure. Just like tropical marine fish get swept into the Gulf Stream and ultimately into the North Atlantic, to die. Doesn't mean they like it.

Sure it holds weight as an analogy. A fish or person in a box a little bigger than their bodies will not show deformities. McCain was beaten 2-3 times a week for an extended period. That's is obviously a different situation. But I don't want folks do that to their fish either.

You say that as if it is a bad thing, but someone needs to point at that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

IMO, pointing out that not everything posted online is a best practice is especially important in a forum like this one for new hobbyists.

What size tank will you recomend for my guppies? I don't want them to fell to crammed in a 4ftx2ft enclosure in a 300 gallon plus system.

cu455 · Jun 27, 2015

Paul B said:
Are these guppies reproducing in full salt water? I have kept many mollies, figure 8 puffers, scats, mono's, archerfish, bumblebees etc in full saltwater but they are by nature brackish water fish. Guppies are not and will never be. I have no problem with "you" keeping them in salt water, saw dust or battery acid as many guppies are just bred to feed other things anyway. I would imagine if they are breeding and living 4 or 5 years in full salt water, then I am wrong, and I have been wrong before.

I like the battery acid idea, I might give it a try. What are bumblebees? The salinity is ~1.022. I have had them for 2 years but I am not sure how long they have been living. I scoop them out of the fuge and use them as feeders. I don't really keep track of them. Now I am going to breed local killies for food.

Here is my Marine Breeding Initiative journal which has more information about the setup.
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75074&title=breeding-journal-poecilia-reticulata

Paul B · Jun 27, 2015

Bumblebee gobies. Cool looking little fish that do well in full salt water. I keep them in my reef occasionally where they live for a year or so. I am not sure how long they normally live as they are small, like 3/4"

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 27, 2015

cu455 said:
What size tank will you recomend for my guppies? I don't want them to fell to crammed in a 4ftx2ft enclosure in a 300 gallon plus system.

No need to get sarcastic. A 20 gallon tank seems fine for guppies.

mr.reeferman · Jun 27, 2015

i convert them because they can live in my tank and provide a more natural hunting experience for my fish and some survive and add life to the tank the hardy live the weak are eaten

4FordFamily · Jun 27, 2015

mr.reeferman · Jun 27, 2015

and yes farley i could look at any given person and tell if they had a head ache i think any parent could

mmarro99 · Jun 27, 2015

Awesome! Any tips for doing this with ghost shrimp? Would they be ok if you dump a bunch in a sump to reproduce to use later as live food? Or would you need to slowly acclimate as well.?

mmarro99 · Jun 27, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I do not know that they experience discomfort any more than you know that they do not. So we may just have to leave it at that.

Your simple observations do not say anything more than that you are avoiding obvious problems. When I have a headache, can you tell by looking at me? In fact. most health issues for humans do not show obvious external signals. That's why you get all sorts of other tests when you get a physical exam.

I'm not sure why you have difficulty understanding the issues of putting a freshwater or brackish fish in full strength seawater. Marine fish spend a lot of energy pumping out salt that penetrates their systems. Guppies that are put into brackish water experience cellular changes to try to adapt to the salt and be able to pump it out. This is shown in the scientific literature. Is that forced morphological change comfortable? Are they comfortable when it is completed?

Quite true. There are a few fish that freely move from full salt water to fresh and back again. They are the exception, not the rule. Guppies are not among them. Not sure what you saw, but guppies as a rule do not live in full strength seawater. Do some get swept into the ocean? Sure. Just like tropical marine fish get swept into the Gulf Stream and ultimately into the North Atlantic, to die. Doesn't mean they like it.

Sure it holds weight as an analogy. A fish or person in a box a little bigger than their bodies will not show deformities. McCain was beaten 2-3 times a week for an extended period. That's is obviously a different situation. But I don't want folks do that to their fish either.

You say that as if it is a bad thing, but someone needs to point at that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

IMO, pointing out that not everything posted online is a best practice is especially important in a forum like this one for new hobbyists.

But they are feeders. op I believe said he was going to use them as such. so it's cruel to adapt them to saltwater but not cruel to buy them at your lfs in fresh water just to feed them to your fish? I think what is cruel is our local fish stores that charge us 25 to 50 cents a pop for them[emoji23]

mr.reeferman · Jun 28, 2015

the guppies in the pic are offspring of offspring of guppies that i did saltwater dips with the second batch of offspring aka the parents of these were born into brackish water and when these were born they were born into a strong brackish environment when i moved last the tank broke and i needed to quickly get the fish in water so i mixed some of the brackish water i was able to save with ro water the salinity was not as strong but i couldnt stick them straight into fresh due to stress issues but that being said every generation of guppies up to this point have had the salinity raised i never taken a freshwater fish and dropped it in salt unless it is for a dip these fish were bred slowly to help alter the way they process salt now if anyone else tries this i dont suggest buying freshwater guppies and raising the salinity although it can be done and definitely dont put them in your marine tank with marine fish if you want them to live they are to weak to fight off attacker

redfishbluefish said:
That is wild! Also heard of mollies, but never guppies. How long did it take to raise the salinity?

cu455 · Jun 28, 2015

mmarro99 said:
Awesome! Any tips for doing this with ghost shrimp? Would they be ok if you dump a bunch in a sump to reproduce to use later as live food? Or would you need to slowly acclimate as well.?

I tried converting saltwater ghost shrimp to freshwater over an hours time. They all died by the next day. I do have saltwater ghost shrimp that are breeding.

mr.reeferman · Jun 28, 2015

and yes the female guppies in the full salinity are pregnant once more and about to burst actually the cycle seems faster in these females rather than there mothers

mr.reeferman · Jun 28, 2015

@ paul b

Paul B said:
Are these guppies reproducing in full salt water? I have kept many mollies, figure 8 puffers, scats, mono's, archerfish, bumblebees etc in full saltwater but they are by nature brackish water fish. Guppies are not and will never be. I have no problem with "you" keeping them in salt water, saw dust or battery acid as many guppies are just bred to feed other things anyway. I would imagine if they are breeding and living 4 or 5 years in full salt water, then I am wrong, and I have been wrong before.

mr.reeferman said:
and yes the female guppies in the full salinity are pregnant once more and about to burst actually the cycle seems faster in these females rather than there mothers

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 28, 2015

mr.reeferman said:
and yes farley i could look at any given person and tell if they had a head ache i think any parent could

Wow, pretty incredible skill. Maybe you should have been a doctor.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 28, 2015

mmarro99 said:
But they are feeders. op I believe said he was going to use them as such. so it's cruel to adapt them to saltwater but not cruel to buy them at your lfs in fresh water just to feed them to your fish? ]

Depends on the level of suffering, IMO.

mmarro99 · Jun 28, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Depends on the level of suffering, IMO.

You are too nice imo. I hope for your fish sake they only eat veggies and don't require a meaty diet. I'd hate to think your fish not get a proper diet because brine or any other type of meaty creature was cultivated in a less than humane environment. Js