Starry Blenny - Flashing? Ich? Help!!!!!!

[Stew18]

Well I'll pick your brain and then see what happens. Let me start by saying I have been in the hobby about 18 months.
Let me tell you what I have then tell you about my problem and you will have the big picture.....

I have a 40 gallon innovative marine all in one tank. I have lots of live rock, maybe 5 coral. I am running a tunze skimmer, mp 10 and a filter sock along with a ATO. I DO NOT have a QT nor do I really have room for one. I know that would be ideal but I am learning as I go.

I currently have a 2" starry blenny, 2 inch marine betta, 2 inch diamond goby, 3" mccoskers flasher wrasse, and a really cool 1 inch deepwater chromis.


I have purchased my fish from 2 local fish stores and live aquaria. Since i don't have a Qt I put the fish with the water it comes with in a big bowl. I add half a cup of water to the bowl every 5 minutes for about 45 min. Then I bet the fish into my tank as to not use the water from the store.

I have a friend at the fish store who works there and has his own 150 gallon tank. He came over and I showed him what my blenny was doing and he said the blenny was flashing. AKA trying to get stuff off himself. The blenny has natural white spots anyway but he said he saw some white on his tail. He said it was ich and I have also noticed the blenny sometimes trying bite his tail. He is eating great and seems otherwise great. All the other fish are awesome.

So he said use the garlic stuff I bought from the fish store to mix with the food and get cleaner shrimp cause they will clean off the ich? I will say as soon as I put the shrimp in they went to work on the blenny.

My buddy also said there is a medicine that starts with an M that we could mix with the food when we fee t he fish and that should work too?

Are all my fish now susseptable to it? Will they all get it? Maybe some maybe not?

Your thoughts? And thank you so much

 

[melypr1985]

Hi there! Let's see if we can help you out real quick. First off, I'd like to have a picture.
Without a picture, I will go off the assumption that the blenny does in fact have ich. All my advice will be based on that assumption at this point.

Ich is contagious. It's a parasite that feeds off of your fish. The cleaner shrimp is likely not actually eating the parasites themselves, but dead skin cells. To kill the ich here are your options. Copper, CP or hypo. Copper and CP cannot be done in your display tank, you will need a hospital tank for that. If you have inverts (which you do-shrimp) you cannot do hypo in the tank. You can remove your corals and inverts to another tank and do hypo, but if you have another tank, then why not make that extra tank a hospital tank. These are the only ways to get rid of the ich. You can feed selcon and other vitamins but that wont kill the ich. It will boost their immune system some and maybe allow them to live with the parasite. They wont live to their full life span, but they might be able to live with it for a while.
You will also need to leave your display fallow (fishless) for 76 days to rid your whole tank of the parasite. Treat all fish in a hospital tank. Leave all inverts and corals in the display and leave it without fish.
I'll post those treatment methods and how to do them in just a sec. I still want a picture. Remember all this advice is given based on the ASSUMPTION that the blenny has ich. we can't tell for sure without a LEAST a good quality picture.

 

[melypr1985]

Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.

How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. At some point the FDA decided to make it a controlled substance and that was the end of that. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet to write you a prescription that can then be filled at a local pharmacy.

CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:

• Prophylactic treatment is 40 mg per gallon.
• Active infections (visible symptoms present) is 60mg/gal.
• For Uronema marinum and really bad infestations, you can dose up to 80mg/gal.

As you can see, there is quite a bit of wiggle room between the minimum & maximum dosage. Practically speaking, 40mg/gal will treat all external protozoa issues… it’s just that the higher dosages may get the job done a little faster. Treatment lasts 30 consecutive days, and no carbon, UV, etc. may be used during this time (although it can be used later when you wish to remove the medication from the water). A little quirk about CP is that it is light sensitive, so you cannot use a light on the aquarium while treating. However, this does not mean your fish have to remain in total darkness; ambient lighting (say, from a window across the room) is fine. CP is NOT reef safe. In addition to killing your corals, it is a very strong algaecide.

Pros - Gentle on most fish (DO NOT USE with wrasses), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.

Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), light sensitive; some evidence of appetite suppression with certain species (especially wrasses.) Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.

Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum

How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.

Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.

Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.

Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.

Pros - Readily available

Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.

 

[melypr1985]

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)



Assuming that it's not ich. .... The flashing does indicate that the blenny is trying to rid himself of something in his gills. This could also be flukes. A fresh water dip will rule out or confirm flukes for you. Here's how to do that in case you want to try it.

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

 

[Stew18]

Wow a lot of stuff. Maybe I should have just stuck to the cat my wife wanted

I love this hobby and these fish and want to do it right I'm just not sure I have room for a QT tank right now unless I put it in the garage

I showed my friend your posts and he said he agrees with everything you said. He also said that since it is in your tank it doesn't mean your fish will get it. He says if you keep your fish heathy they should be relatively safe. He says he has had ich in his 150 for years and never lost a fish? Your thoughts? And thank you

 

[Humblefish]

I showed my friend your posts and he said he agrees with everything you said. He also said that since it is in your tank it doesn't mean your fish will get it. He says if you keep your fish heathy they should be relatively safe. He says he has had ich in his 150 for years and never lost a fish? Your thoughts? And thank you

What your friend is doing is called ich management. More info on that here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/

People who practice ich management have varying degrees of success. Everything can be fine for years, and then all of a sudden the situation spirals out of control. And being there are so many factors to consider/things to monitor whilst doing ich management, it can be difficult to figure out exactly what went wrong... Even worse, you risk encountering a disease such as velvet by forgoing QT. If you ever have a run in with that disease, all of your fish will be dead within a week as many people on this forum can testify to.

 

[melypr1985]

Wow a lot of stuff. Maybe I should have just stuck to the cat my wife wanted

I love this hobby and these fish and want to do it right I'm just not sure I have room for a QT tank right now unless I put it in the garage

I showed my friend your posts and he said he agrees with everything you said. He also said that since it is in your tank it doesn't mean your fish will get it. He says if you keep your fish heathy they should be relatively safe. He says he has had ich in his 150 for years and never lost a fish? Your thoughts? And thank you

Everything that Humblefish just said is very true. He's the master here after all, and I only the apprentice. However what your friend is saying isn't actually true. Read the link humblefish posted and it will explain a lot. But if ich is in your tank, all your fish have it.... guaranteed. It's in their gills mostly. You can't see ich with the naked eye. When you see white spots, it's just the mucus coat surrounding the insertion point from the parasite. If you dont see ich present on the fish, it's because it's in the gills - out of sight.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Listen to my padawan, wise beyond her years she is.

 

[Stew18]

I can't thank you all enough. I think I need to get a QT Tank. My current display is 40 gallons with 5 fish. What size QT tank should I get.

Also I have posted some pics for you to look at. Thank you

 

[Stew18]

And here is a picture of my HUMBLE tank that I am very proud of

 

[melypr1985]

that's a great tank! You could do with a 20 long for your QT. HOB filter, heater, ammonia badge, and pvc hiding places. If I were you I would do the fresh water dip on the blenny first. check for flukes like described in the posts above. That requires a different treatment than ich does. If you dont see any flukes fall out of his gills, then you treat with copper and leave your display fallow. Let me know what you find in the dip.

 

[Humblefish]

Nice looking HUMBLE tank!

If you were just needing a QT for new additions, I would say a 10 gal should work. However, if you are planning on going fallow and treating ALL your fish for ich I think at least a 20L (or 29 gal has the same footprint - just taller) would be needed to accommodate your bio-load.

 

[Stew18]

can you tell anything from the pics?

 

[Stew18]

thank you

 

[Humblefish]

that's a great tank! You could do with a 20 long for your QT. HOB filter, heater, ammonia badge, and pvc hiding places. If I were you I would do the fresh water dip on the blenny first. check for flukes like described in the posts above. That requires a different treatment than ich does. If you dont see any flukes fall out of his gills, then you treat with copper and leave your display fallow. Let me know what you find in the dip.

+1 Good call on it possibly being flukes. So hard to tell for sure if it's ich on a Starry Blenny.

 

[Humblefish]

To reiterate:

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

If you don't see flukes fall off as outlined in red above, you can safely assume it is ich and one of the following treatments is needed: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-treat-ich.191226/

 

[Stew18]

What do you mean by aerate? Thanks

 

[Humblefish]

What do you mean by aerate? Thanks

Either:

a) Run an air stone in the dip water for 30 mins beforehand.
OR
b) Run a small powerhead, pointed towards the surface of the water, for 30 mins beforehand.

The objective is to add oxygen to the water before placing your fish in it for 5 mins. The most perfect water to use for a FW dip is from a freshwater aquarium. That water should already be good to go without any preparation.