Still struggling with phosphates...

[Shawn_epicurious]

Hey, I had my own thread with my issues with Phosphate. We literally have the exact same problem.
I got .75 Phosphate, looking to get it to 0.1. Like you, I'm not chasing a number, but getting within that range of 0.03 - 0.1.
I got a 200g as well, and using the same salt. I didn't read through everything, but for my tank I'm pretty sure the phosphate is coming from the food and the live rocks leeching it.

I've tried the exact solutions you have:
Rinsing the food - Very minimal difference to me. Might stop doing it as it is a pain and it can feed the corals.
Stopped feeding freeze-dried krill for my anemone.
Fed less pellets - Pretty big difference IMO.
Ran PhosGuard.

One thing I have to say is that PhosGuard isn't effective at all. For you and me, Phosguard for a 200g takes a lot of money to maintain the phosphate at the range of 0.03 - 0.1. In the end, I went with Phosphat-E, like someone said. Phosphat-E does bring phosphate down quick, but I think using it would maintain phosphate much better.
As Phosphat-E works more efficiently with higher phosphate, I would use that if phosphate goes above 0.20. However, once it's below that number, it doesn't work as well, and that's where you should start adding the GFO/PhosGuard. I'm doing this since Phosphat-E is cheap, and will save $ instead of GFO/PhosGuard running all the time. You should research into using Phosphat-E.

My 2nd time dosing Phsophat-E, went from .75 to .5. Planning to do another dose this weekend. After I get below .2, there goes the PhosGuard.

Wow, a lot of similarities! It sounds like I missed the boat on Phophate-E. I was at 2.1 this morning. I have been on a downward trend now for 3 weeks. If it goes back up, I will try it. (I just read up on it a little.)

 

[chousecat]

I personally have really good luck with Phosphate RX. I used dry rock that was leaching phospahtes and brought my tank up to 1.0. I use Phosphate RX and calculated my dosing with the online calculator and brought it to 0.08 within like 9 days by splitting the doses into smaller ones. Now I squeeze 2 drops of Phosphate RX every couple days for maintanence and it keeps it below 0.03- .10. I just drip it into my Skimmer chamber since I have a AIO and I do not have any socks. I also like how it doesn't mess with my Alkalinity like other phosphate removal products do.

 

[Lasse]

Lanthanum chloride (which is the active agent in all the liquid phosphate flocculate agents I know of) can be toxic in a reef aquarium in the long run. Its important - in an effective way - to take away the flocks of La and phosphate as soon as possible. In public aquariums is it often slowly dosed prior a sand filter which is backflushed soon after the dosing. It is also important to track residues with help of ICP tests from vendors that analyze La. It is very effective but you need to be careful when using it.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I personally have really good luck with Phosphate RX. I used dry rock that was leaching phospahtes and brought my tank up to 1.0. I use Phosphate RX and calculated my dosing with the online calculator and brought it to 0.08 within like 9 days by splitting the doses into smaller ones. Now I squeeze 2 drops of Phosphate RX every couple days for maintanence and it keeps it below 0.03- .10. I just drip it into my Skimmer chamber since I have a AIO and I do not have any socks. I also like how it doesn't mess with my Alkalinity like other phosphate removal products do.

PhosGaurd (running in a reactor) is definitely wreaking havoc with my Alk! Not a fan of that.

 

[Thales]

Lanthanum chloride (which is the active agent in all the liquid phosphate flocculate agents I know of) can be toxic in a reef aquarium in the long run. Its important - in an effective way - to take away the flocks of La and phosphate as soon as possible. In public aquariums is it often slowly dosed prior a sand filter which is backflushed soon after the dosing. It is also important to track residues with help of ICP tests from vendors that analyze La. It is very effective but you need to be careful when using it.

Sincerely Lasse

Hi Lasse - Is there any documentation about it being toxic in the long run? I know it has been said, but I have never seen it backed up. Thanks!

 

[Maxx Yung]

It isn't toxic. Well, not definite evidence. Some people say it is toxic to tangs, other people say no. Anyways, if you drip it into a 1 micron sock like me, it shouldn't have any ill effects.

 

[Thales]

It isn't toxic. Well, not definite evidence. Some people say it is toxic to tangs, other people say no. Anyways, if you drip it into a 1 micron sock like me, it shouldn't have any ill effects.

Do you have any documentation showing that it isn't toxic?

 

[Lasse]

Hi Lasse - Is there any documentation about it being toxic in the long run? I know it has been said, but I have never seen it backed up. Thanks!

Not more documentation that you have from public aquarium forum. But I will check with @Sallstrom tomorrow - he has follow this closer than I have done. Sent you PM with some links

Sincerely Lasse

 

[anthonygf]

I place the drops in the overflow box going to filter socks. If you use the recommended amount will cloud your water, but will be ok.

Do you drop it directly in the display, sump or into the skimmer? I read that’s fine but I was dripping it slowly through a 10 micron filter sock and it was kind of annoying so I stopped using it.

Update on my phosphate RX. After adding 4 drops

Do you drop it directly in the display, sump or into the skimmer? I read that’s fine but I was dripping it slowly through a 10 micron filter sock and it was kind of annoying so I stopped using it.

Update on using phosphate RX. My phos went back up to .14 after 2 days, now I will try 6 drops today to see what it measures tomorrow. I have been testing water parameters daily, especially after adding my 6-8 inch clam. I can tell what the clam is consuming now compared to before I got him. I manual dose anything my water needs and clam takes up quite a bit of cal/alk, nitrates and maybe phos. Anyway that is part of enjoying this hobby is testing water daily and seeing how the elements are being consumed. I am retired now and can do testing daily.


This?

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

The clam effect is negligible. Clams also suck at life.
[/QUOTE]
Clam effect my be negligible in large water volume like maybe 200 gallons, but not in my 60 gallon system. Clams do suck well! lol

 

[Sallstrom]

Not more documentation that you have from public aquarium forum. But I will check with @Sallstrom tomorrow - he has follow this closer than I have done. Sent you PM with some links

Sincerely Lasse

No, I have nothing on the effects in the long run. Sorry.
I though it could be when LaCl is overdosed and all phosphate was bound/flocked, the La could be harmful for fish. But I haven’t gotten any answers to that, so I don’t know.

 

[anthonygf]

It isn't a single dose method - it almost always bounces back up. To keep it down over time you need to figure a constant dose for your system.

In April, I raised a whole ton of Acropora embryos all the way to settlement in a system containing my display tank and tanks currently used for growing out parent acros to hopefully spawn in October, with nitrate around 50 and phosphate around 1.3. Baby acros are growing. Adult acros are growing. Display acros are growing and colored enough for me. I continue to think that the worry over nutrient levels may be overblown. I love me some dirty tanks.

Right on!

 

[anthonygf]

This topic seems to garner a lot of attention. Let’s be clear... I am not trying to chase a number. I am however learning to deal with phosphates. When I bought the Hannah checker, I was shocked to see my phosphates were running at almost .6 I think we can all agree that is just too high.

To be honest... if I am ”chasing a number” it is just to get close to .1 and then just see how my tank and the animals in it react to that. I am never going to starve my fish! I like feeding them heavily. I’d like to think I am just no longer feeding them stupidly.

From what I have read/heard that phosphate level is best somewhere between .05 and .08, also they say zero phosphate is not good so you do have to be cautious I guess. when I first tried phosRX and followed directions it dropped my phos to zero from .253, if this is chasing numbers than so be it, just trying to keep phosphate from getting to high but also not down to zero.

 

[Tired]

How sure are you that the phosphate needs to come down?

High phosphate can cause algae. In some tanks, this is fine- there are enough snails and competition that the algae doesn't really get to do anything. In some tanks, it's a problem. But that's about all it does. Some people have phosphates that are 1 or 2, and no I didn't misplace a decimal, and have perfectly healthy reefs. If you don't have an algae problem, you probably don't need to worry about phosphate being too high.

Now, phosphate being too LOW will kill your corals. It takes a bit, but it'll kill 'em.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you have any documentation showing that it isn't toxic?

Dang scientists. Always wanting data....

 

[anthonygf]

How sure are you that the phosphate needs to come down?

High phosphate can cause algae. In some tanks, this is fine- there are enough snails and competition that the algae doesn't really get to do anything. In some tanks, it's a problem. But that's about all it does. Some people have phosphates that are 1 or 2, and no I didn't misplace a decimal, and have perfectly healthy reefs. If you don't have an algae problem, you probably don't need to worry about phosphate being too high.

Now, phosphate being too LOW will kill your corals. It takes a bit, but it'll kill 'em.

Well in my case after 4 years of a nice clean very light algea presence, the algea is spreading. That's when I noticed phosphates is higher than ever. So just to control algea. All other parameters fine, except sulfur is also getting up there, do you know anything about sulfur? which I have posted help with and did not get much help with.

 

[Thales]

Well in my case after 4 years of a nice clean very light algea presence, the algea is spreading. That's when I noticed phosphates is higher than ever. So just to control algea. All other parameters fine, except sulfur is also getting up there, do you know anything about sulfur? which I have posted help with and did not get much help with.

I think it is a losing battle to try to stop algae growth by altering the nutirent levels in the water column. I would, instead, focus on manual removal and herbivores.

 

[Tired]

That's the other thing to try, yep. It might be your snails are dying of old age and giving the algae some room to go wild. Could be worth adding more snails and seeing how that goes. Remember that, unless corals are actively being smothered, algae is just an aesthetic issue. That means you have time to try a few things.

 

[Thales]

I don't think I have ever seen compelling evidence that lowering nutrient numbers has greatly reduced an algae issue. There are always other things being done at the same time. I would love to be wrong

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I don't think I have ever seen compelling evidence that lowering nutrient numbers has greatly reduced an algae issue. There are always other things being done at the same time. I would love to be wrong

Which is why everyone says...”it works in my tank”

 

[Maxx Yung]

I believe LaCl isn't toxic from my personal usage.
Many people dosing LaCl could agree. However, there will always be people who have issues with them.
Thus, they say LaCl is toxic, but it could be many different factors... hard to know unless somebody does a test.

And yes, using too much of everything is probably toxic, so if somebody dosed too much LaCl, they will probably see some negative effects.

If you do your dilution right, dripped slowly in 1 micron socks, it will be okay for most people.