Taken from the wild . . .

[Alex.M.]

When I went to pick up a sea urchin from a friends house yesterday I noticed that they were also selling their 2 inch long Horse Shoe Crab. I asked how they got it and they told me that they picked it up at their local beach. I "offered" to buy it from them and keep it safe. Would it be possible to return it to the wild since its only been in their tank for roughly 3 months?

PS I completely disagree about taking animals from the wild and HATE when people do this!

 

[BestMomEver]

I don’t see why you couldn’t.

 

[jsvand5]

When I went to pick up a sea urchin from a friends house yesterday I noticed that they were also selling their 2 inch long Horse Shoe Crab. I asked how they got it and they told me that they picked it up at their local beach. I "offered" to buy it from them and keep it safe. Would it be possible to return it to the wild since its only been in their tank for roughly 3 months?

PS I completely disagree about taking animals from the wild and HATE when people do this!

Why? The vast majority of things in our tanks come from the wild. I’m not sure how collecting your own stuff is any different than buying from a fish store. Assuming you are legally allowed to collect in the area of course.

 

[ReefQueen]

Boy are you gonna be mad when you find out where most of the livestock from your LFS comes from lol. I don’t think it would be an issue returning it though.

 

[Alex.M.]

Why? The vast majority of things in our tanks come from the wild. I’m not sure how collecting your own stuff is any different than buying from a fish store. Assuming you are legally allowed to collect in the area of course.

I actually only buy my fish from local friends or if I can confirm that it is captive grown. Collecting sea creature from the ocean is just as bad has taken wild tigers and putting them in a zoo for the public to see. IF all animals are taken from the wild we will destroy the ecosystem.

Just follow the math. Last year roughly 2 million clown fish were sold in the US. (This does not include friends giving friends, local vendors that don't resister their trades, etc). If every year we we collect 2 million clown fish from the ocean (just for the US) then in 10 years there will be 20 million less in the sea, and in 50 years there will be 100 million less, AND thats just for the US! Asia has a higher market with an estimated 20 billion fish sold every year. If we start taking from the wild at those rates we will completely destroy the ecosystem of the ocean leading to large deaths in other fish species, corals, etc. I am not going to even get started on freshwater ecosystems, which are worse!

Now I know fish will reproduce, but not at the rate we would be taking them. Clown fish are food for a lot of lager fish species and provide support for corals. If you do not believe me then do the math your self. In fact just do some basic research on the topic of over fishing or aquarium trades impact on local sea life. There are plenty of documentaries on Netflix if you don't like to read.

 

[Alex.M.]

Boy are you gonna be mad when you find out where most of the livestock from your LFS comes from lol. I don’t think it would be an issue returning it though.

I do not buy from my LFS. I only buy a fish if I can confirm that it is captive grown. Its more expensive but worth it if Im not part of the problem with over fishing, and ecosystem degradation of our oceans.

 

[Scotty Buttons]

I can almost guarantee that sea urchin you bought from your friend was wild collected. And only a SMALL amount of fish in the aquarium trade are captive bred

 

[Alex.M.]

I can almost guarantee that sea urchin you bought from your friend was wild collected. And only a SMALL amount of fish in the aquarium trade are captive bred

She raises urchins and sells them so I know the are captive raised. More and more companies (the whole sale suppliers) are switching to captive raised ocean creatures (It accounts for 40% of the trad). Since the animals are hardier, less prone to illness, and it easier to raise them then to deal with the fees and taxes from catching them in the wild.

 

[MSB123]

She raises urchins and sells them so I know the are captive raised. More and more companies (the whole sale suppliers) are switching to captive raised ocean creatures (It accounts for 40% of the trad). Since the animals are hardier, less prone to illness, and it easier to raise them then to deal with the fees and taxes from catching them in the wild.

I disagree. I would like to see where "40%" came from

 

[Alex.M.]

I disagree. I would like to see where "40%" came from

It come from my text book on environmental ethics and global conservation. I don't have the text book still since I rented it but you can always google the information using proper sources.

Since the 1990's, there has been more global research on ecosystem conversation, both on land and the oceans. Fees and Taxes were added onto the sales and capture of marine life caught in the wild. This could be for either food, or pet trade. The cost of the taxes and fees are higher than the cost of raising the animals so a lot of whole sale fish markets (these are the large companies that LFS and petco/petsmart/walmart buy from) are starting to raise the animals rather than to harvest them form the wild. At one time captive raised animals were more expensive than wild caught, however thanks to raised taxes by conservationist and biologist, wild caught are starting to become more expensive than captive raised. Plus the captive raised fish are typically healthier, stronger and better colored.

 

[User1]

It come from my text book on environmental ethics and global conservation. I don't have the text book still since I rented it but you can always google the information using proper sources.

Since the 1990's, there has been more global research on ecosystem conversation, both on land and the oceans. Fees and Taxes were added onto the sales and capture of marine life caught in the wild. This could be for either food, or pet trade. The cost of the taxes and fees are higher than the cost of raising the animals so a lot of whole sale fish markets (these are the large companies that LFS and petco/petsmart/walmart buy from) are starting to raise the animals rather than to harvest them form the wild. At one time captive raised animals were more expensive than wild caught, however thanks to raised taxes by conservationist and biologist, wild caught are starting to become more expensive than captive raised. Plus the captive raised fish are typically healthier, stronger and better colored.

I think when you throw out these numbers you need to also put it context. Not all the fish in our trade that we keep can be captive bred or raised. It is limited. So when you say 40% or some number what is that of. I can say without a doubt that isn't 40% of what is being sold. That is a number of a fish that is captive bred or raised like a clown fish of some sort.

If we are talking about coral that is another story. This hobby can be self sustaining with coral and not much should be collected from the wild. All of us here can look to our left and right and share corals. The reason why it isn't is because the craze of slapping names to corals and charging a kidney to buy a 1/4" frag.

FWIW I think it is noble of you to try and buy captive raised fish. However, the hobby is many more years and environmental laws away from that.

 

[ReefQueen]

I could see 40% if we are talking freshwater fish as well, look at how quickly livebearers and cichlids reproduce, but definitely not SW by itself. There are many many more LFS selling livestock from the ocean then there are people captive raising them.

 

[nereefpat]

Would it be possible to return it to the wild since its only been in their tank for roughly 3 months?

No.

 

[nereefpat]

I don’t see why you couldn’t.

Because it's illegal.

 

[philosophile]

40% of all fish.... that number is about fish for FOOD, not for the pet industry. Fish in the pet industry are mostly wild caught, with the exception of a handful of species.

 

[Alex.M.]

I think when you throw out these numbers you need to also put it context. Not all the fish in our trade that we keep can be captive bred or raised. It is limited. So when you say 40% or some number what is that of. I can say without a doubt that isn't 40% of what is being sold. That is a number of a fish that is captive bred or raised like a clown fish of some sort.

If we are talking about coral that is another story. This hobby can be self sustaining with coral and not much should be collected from the wild. All of us here can look to our left and right and share corals. The reason why it isn't is because the craze of slapping names to corals and charging a kidney to buy a 1/4" frag.

FWIW I think it is noble of you to try and buy captive raised fish. However, the hobby is many more years and environmental laws away from that.

The 40% is including world trade,( so other countires) and it was talking about salt water animals (including inverts). Other countries take a higher stance on captive breeding than wild harvesting. However America is based on money. If people are still willing to buy wild harvested fish then the supply will always be there. In the USA aqauriumist need to start to demand captive breed fish, and companies would start to supply it. But since people seem not to care (this thread is evidence) then the system will never change.

 

[Alex.M.]

40% of all fish.... that number is about fish for FOOD, not for the pet industry. Fish in the pet industry are mostly wild caught, with the exception of a handful of species.

Incorrect those number is based on the pet trade, globally, for salt water animals. Freshwater is much higher. However food based is only roughly 20%.

 

[Alex.M.]

Because it's illegal.

After contacting my local state park I found out that its illegal only for some species of animals. Most land animals it is illegal but aquatic animals are a different story. Endangered species (like the horse shoe crab), you are encouraged to put it back where it was taken from.

 

[philosophile]

The 40% is including world trade,( so other countires) and it was talking about salt water animals (including inverts). Other countries take a higher stance on captive breeding than wild harvesting. However America is based on money. If people are still willing to buy wild harvested fish then the supply will always be there. In the USA aqauriumist need to start to demand captive breed fish, and companies would start to supply it. But since people seem not to care (this thread is evidence) then the system will never change.

I still think you're looking at the number wrong. inverts include shrimp clams mussels oysters, etc. again, this is all for food consumption. World trade in fish is largely for consumption, not for the pet trade. There is definitely a demand for tank raised fish, its just INCREDIBLY difficult to raise fish this way. I have three fish in my tank, two clowns, and a firefish. The firefish is wild caught, the other two are tank raised. I'm planning on buying a tank raised mandarin soon. But again, outside a handful of species, there aren't that many options for aquarists to choose from. That said, would I like nothing but tank raised fish? sure I would. But demanding them, and being able to actually produce them are two different things.

ORA and Biotica are two companies that frequently sell tank raised fish. I always encourage people to buy from them.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

Incorrect those number is based on the pet trade, globally, for salt water animals. Freshwater is much higher. However food based is only roughly 20%.

I've worked in all aspects of the ornamental aquarium pet trade including retail and more relevantly, wholesale. I can assure you that you are misinterpreting those numbers you pulled from a text book. It is not 40%.