The importance of nitrite measurements in a reef aquarium

[piranhaman00]

Very interesting read. I personally consider a tank cycled when NO2 is undetectable.

It also has me thinking that it is fair to assume that NO3 levels are always lower then what you get for a reading on a hobby test kit. By how much would depend on your NO2 levels I guess.

 

[mitten_reef]

I think one person on this thread seems to be rambling on and on without actually understanding the OP's intent.

With the renaissance of keeping nitrate at some detectable level, I can see it'd be interesting to know if the presence of nitrite will impact how we see/test for nitrate, and/or the tank ecosystem as a whole. Do I measure it? no. Will I? probably not. But learning a few new ideas or concepts may form a better picture some day. thanks.

 

[Lasse]

Very interesting read. I personally consider a tank cycled when NO2 is undetectable.

Exactly and you need only to measure nitrite to know this. With my methode to start tanks I have never measured any nitrite spike but after three weeks with fish and feeding - I know that the tank is cycled anyhow. Because if it not cycled - I would have a spike.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

Mitten

that's incorrect, I disagree with what Lasse has said largely, and provided links. Id accept any you have any to offer.

I can’t get Lasse to directly discuss the link.

in Randy's article, linked twice now, Im not seeing everything claimed here so I struggle to find what I believe.






In no way is this matter closed or even remotely addressed in any way repeatable, but there's neat biochemistry to read up on.


follow up on nitrite positive start

Nitrite Issue

Hey all, Here is the issue I am encountering - I have a 65g tank and has been up now for about 2 months. I let it cycle for the first full month using microbacter and dr. Tim's ammonia, after cycle was complete I kept adding ammonia and made sure everything was 0 within 24hrs did this for about...

www.reef2reef.com

every thread we follow up on, nitrite did not matter.

 

[Lasse]

For the book - I agree to more than 98 % of what Randy have written about nitrite - however - IMO - to measure nitrite in a reef aquarium give you a more stable tool compared with bad total ammonia tests to get a clue what´s going on. In a start - it is the only tool you need in order to know when the aquarium is fully cycled (according to the nitrification cycle)

Today when use of DOC is very common - nitrite measurements can give you a hint when heterotrophic bacteria have occupied most available space. It can also help you to get a better understanding of your nitrate analyses.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[mitten_reef]

Mitten

that's incorrect, I disagree with what Lasse has said largely, and provided links. Id accept any you have any to offer

in Randy's article, linked twice now, Im not seeing everything claimed here so I struggle to find what I believe.

even for nitrate measuring, we are accepting any offer without verifying the reader and nitrate comparison threads show massive spreads brand to brand.

I've seen what you've offered on this thread. I don't think I need to offer anything to prove anything to you, this is a topic up for discussion, no one is trying to prove they're CORRECT.
in my opinion, your link provided had little to no correlation to this topic. go re-read the first post. I don't think this discussion has anything to do with cycling, nor nitrite toxicity, other than prefacing the biological process of nitrate production. you seem so hung up on the wrong part of the content, and continued to push the discussion in a direction that didn't seem the topic was intended for - hence, why I said you were rambling.

 

[brandon429]

given accurate testing I find the nitrite nitrate ratios useful, but we are disagreeing on 80% of the other points and no degree of actual cycling tanks we can show will matter here.

 

[Lasse]

has anything to do with cycling, nor nitrite toxicity

Exactly - I´ll only try to give some arguments why measurements of nitrite can give you a very usable tool fot your husbandry of the aquarium - especially if you want it to function as an ecosystem and not as a decorative vase. And also that it can give you a cheap and reliable tool in order to know when your aquarium is fully cycled (nitrification cycle) - it means that both the ammonium oxidation and nitrite oxidation works in a more or less seamless condition.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

Lasse can you give them as links from other studies, articles, posts that applied them in a tank


can it be that type of source/other than typed out

I feel that the chemistry forum requires some type of backup for claims made, the ones I provided by Randy were very quickly dismissed, but not replaced.

Parameters of newly established reef

My reef tank is less then a month old. Here are the parameters as of today. How does this look?? 16 gallon nano reef with 9 small corals, 3 fish, and few CUC. Fiji live sand and cultured live rock to start. feedback greatly appreciated!! ✌️

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Lasse]

For the book - I agree to more than 98 % of what Randy have written about nitrite - however - IMO - to measure nitrite in a reef aquarium give you a more stable tool compared with bad total ammonia tests to get a clue what´s going on. In a start - it is the only tool you need in order to know when the aquarium is fully cycled (according to the nitrification cycle)

Today when use of DOC is very common - nitrite measurements can give you a hint when heterotrophic bacteria have occupied most available space. It can also help you to get a better understanding of your nitrate analyses.

Sincerely Lasse

My bold

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

I forget one pathway for nitrite into our aquarium - I did know about it but remember it first when I re-read Randy´s article. Some UVC can convert NO3 into NO2 and are forbidden for drinking water treatment in Sweden. But this is not a problem with low pressure lamps and probably not for middle pressure lamps. It is only valid for UVC lamps using the high pressure technique and as I know it - low pressure and in some instances middle pressure lamps is the ones used in reef aquarium.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

There is a company in Austria that have measured nitrite and nitrate levels with scientific equipment for quite a while now. They report nitrite levels between 0 and very high. Normally concentrations is between 0.01 and 0.05. This levels is not dangerous for any life and signal a good working aquarium. However - if you use nitrate measurements and have low concentrations (<5 ppm) they can alter your nitrate readings between 0.5 - 5 ppm depended on the brand you use. Higher nitrite levels indicate something wrong with the microfauna that may need to be take care of. Either a bad working nitrification cycle or a bad working denitrification cycle.

Sincerely Lasse

my nitrites are at 10 ppb (hanna comes in ppb) for fw and 0 ppm for fw (i dont use hanna for fw)
nitrates at 20ppm, 40ppm, 40ppm for my fw tanks and 5ppm for sw

 

[BackToTheReef]

We used nitrite to track the progress of a new tanks cycle. If ammonia was dropping and nitrite was picking we we sort of "knew" where the tank was in the cycle. Then as we saw the drop in nitrite and rise in nitrates we knew the bacteria was doing it's thing.

Then as customers added more fish the first couple times we could use it as a signal to how the biological filters were working. We didn't pay too much attention to what the concentrations were unless something seemed "off" butit was 15 years ago so I could be mis-remembering.

 

[brandon429]

For the book - I agree to more than 98 % of what Randy have written about nitrite - however - IMO - to measure nitrite in a reef aquarium give you a more stable tool compared with bad total ammonia tests to get a clue what´s going on. In a start - it is the only tool you need in order to know when the aquarium is fully cycled (according to the nitrification cycle)
————————————

we can make all ammonia kits work by showing the motion down from a higher ammonia dose


nitrite does not harm reef tank animals and nh3 does, it’s why updated cycling practice omits nitrite measure.

Fishelss Cycle Questions

I was in the same situation a few months ago & added a bottle of bio spira. The nitrites went to zero in a day or two. Could be coincidence but that definitely worked for me. Also 4ppm is a lot. Everything I read suggested 2ppm (could be totally mistaken tho) Well hell, I just reread Dr. Tim's...

www.reef2reef.com

nitrite did not factor there.

Cycling issues

Hi Newbie here :) I am having nothing but issues with my main tank and if I hadnt sunk so many funds into this venture I would be throwing in the towel :( I realise in hindsight I have made a few mistakes and more than a few unnecessary purchases but here's the story: Set up my system on...

www.reef2reef.com

here, it was totally mis measured.

see the patterns, and it’s only four links

 

[Lasse]

my nitrites are at 10 ppb (hanna comes in ppb) for fw and 0 ppm for fw (i dont use hanna for fw)
nitrates at 20ppm, 40ppm, 40ppm for my fw tanks and 5ppm for sw

Hanna checker gives the result in NO2-N. It means that you should multiply your 10 ppb with 3,29 which will give you 32,9 ppb NO2. -> 0,0329 ppm NO2. If your Nitrate test use 50 as conversion factor - you should take away 1.6 ppm from NO3 readings - if the conversion factor is 100 - 3.29 ppm should be redrawn. What complicate thing is that the accuracy of the Hanna ULR test is ± 10 ppb. Your real result can vary between 0 and 20 ppb (0 and 0,0568 ppm).

Sincerely Lasse

 

[robbyg]

It would be nice if @Randy Holmes-Farley joined in, I am sure this is the kind of thing that gets his juices flowing rather than the boring daily questions knoobs like me post. When Randy and Lasse start a conversation we all benefit.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Excellent info, Lasse. Showing/explaining how existing in-tank nitrite levels can affect nitrate test kit results is very useful for anyone concerned with measuring nitrate accurately in their system.

I think there is a tendency for reef keepers to assume that once nitrite shows as '0' when the reef tank has completed cycling, that it won't show up again (especially so when the system is mature). I have never tested nitrite in my 12 year old nano, so I'm curious to see if it is present in any measurable amount. And if so, determine how much the NO2 is affecting my NO3 test results.

 

[Alenya]

Thank you for the post Lasse, interesting and informative
FWIW as an ex-freshwater, I always test nitrite in my SW tank.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Thanks @Lasse

Always great reading. Appreciate the time you put into writing your articles for us, keep them coming.

 

[Larry L]

Hi @Lasse, interesting thread, thanks! I was not aware of the problem of nitrites in interfering with nitrate test readings. A few questions:

1) By how much does the existing nitrite affect the nitrate readings? E.g. if there is 0.1 ppm nitrite, how far off will the nitrate reading be?

2) Is it possible to have nitrites in an existing tank, over a long period of time? Or is it only a problem in a new setup? My nitrates always used to run around 20-30 ppm and I have now got them down to about 5 ppm, but I am wondering if the previous high readings were artificially high due to existence of nitrite, and my apparent drop in nitrates is really because the nitrites came down.