The myth that LED lights last forever

[oreo54]

Interesting how the cheaper to produce leds cost sooo much more to purchase a fixture.

Like ATI t5's?
$25 reef tube vs home Depot $6 one?
Yea reef LEDs have higher than normal markups but so does everything else

 

[Someshmuk]

Interesting how the cheaper to produce leds cost sooo much more to purchase a fixture.

Honestly, We're dealing with brand pricing more than the cost to manufacture. They all come from the same place at the end of the day.

Orphek light bars, have a better cost for par than say Radions. But you don't get to live in the Ecotech ecosystem doing that. TBH, all companies offering lights give me the "living in my apple world" vibe.

It's the same for dosers. GHL dosers are made up of rather simple and cheap parts, but you pay to live in their platform ecosystem and support structure. Can you do automated dosing with Jebao or Kamoer? Yes. Is it as robust or tuned as GHL? Maybe with enough legwork on your end.

 

[oreo54]

Similarly, Philips' coral care lights advertise 25,000 hours at full light output, amounting to just 2.5 years or up to 5 years if operated for 12 hours daily.

25000hr @100% output/ 12 hr (normal day) /365 = 5.71 yrs.
History .

useful life of LED

Has anyone performed analysis of LED performance over time (years)? Just curious to see how much dropoff occurs after 1, 2, 3+ years.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Dburr1014]

I'm on borrowed time with my reefbreeders v2.
Bought late 2016 or early 2017(i should check my label). Currently 100% on 4 channels.
Also 4" above the water with the lenses removed since new.

 

[FishTruck]

I have some nearly10 year old Radions, that I use in my frag tank. Corals grow like cr"p down there, which makes me wonder what the spectral changes are. Temped to try some good ole T5s!

 

[oreo54]

Color shifts of single colored diodes are probably minor.
Whites on the other hand .well remember that white is a blue diode with a phosphor(s) which degrade.
High temps only move the spectrum a few nm's

https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/articles/royal-blue-leds-decoding-the-datasheet

Degradation of the white diode would probably be visible because the yellow/green light is " eye bright". The effect in photosynthesis is probably minimal but ???.

Par losses would be more critical.

EDIT.. I omitted "violet" or UV diodes. These would probably "decay" faster than rb,b,r,g,ect leading to a color shift and more importantly (and the cause of said color shift) par losses.
Historically their like L70 lifespan is only in the 1000's..(guesstimate)

 

[Someshmuk]

Color shifts of single colored diodes are probably minor.
Whites on the other hand .well remember that white is a blue diode with a phosphor(s) which degrade.
High temps only move the spectrum a few nm's

https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/articles/royal-blue-leds-decoding-the-datasheet

Degradation of the white diode would probably be visible because the yellow/green light is " eye bright". The effect in photosynthesis is probably minimal but ???.

Par losses would be more critical.

It might be par for the course to get a oversized led fixture that you run at 50% so that when the 5 or 10 year mark rolls through you can boost up to your original par. That way you can definitely run your lights for until the fixture fails from electronics vs degradation.

 

[jason2459]

It might be par for the course to get a oversized led fixture that you run at 50% so that when the 5 or 10 year mark rolls through you can boost up to your original par. That way you can definitely run your lights for until the fixture fails from electronics vs degradation.

Just over sized?

This was my 180 and with 4 36" photon v2s I think I bought around 2015 and was still going strong this summer. I think the highest any one channel was at was around 40%. Fans never kicked on. Par across top of rock work here is around 300-325




I just moved to a 120 4'x2'x2' and this is my current setup on there with 5 AI Hydra 32HDs and two reefbreeder blue/uv strips (only one you can see in the picture. The other is on the back part of the canopy). Highest any one channel is at is 25% including the strips. My goal again was to have no fans kick on. Par across top of rock work is ~325-350

 

[shwareefer]

Just over sized?

This was my 180 and with 4 36" photon v2s I think I bought around 2015 and was still going strong this summer. I think the highest any one channel was at was around 40%. Fans never kicked on. Par across top of rock work here is around 300-325




I just moved to a 120 4'x2'x2' and this is my current setup on there with 5 AI Hydra 32HDs and two reefbreeder blue/uv strips (only one you can see in the picture. The other is on the back part of the canopy). Highest any one channel is at is 25% including the strips. My goal again was to have no fans kick on. Par across top of rock work is ~325-350

why the switch to AI?

 

[jason2459]

why the switch to AI?

I got a really good deal on them used. I have a 6th spare one too in case one goes out. Also, something else to try. I really like them a lot. The colors blend together a lot better vs the photon's. Not that the photon's where horrible at all.

 

[BZOFIQ]

This has been covered ad nauseam.

LED fixtures last until next gen come out; much like cell phones.

 

[Enchanted Reefs]

I use a hybrid system for the fact that 1 source of lighting isn’t perfect.

1. T5 - gives me par and spread for the dimensions of my tank

2. Radions xr15 g4 - provide me blue spectrum during the morning and evening which makes the corals pop

3. Kessils - give me the shimmer that I enjoy

4. Ali express $45 led bar - helps remove shadows at the front of my tank caused by the rest of the lights

 

[Bpb]

This has been covered ad nauseam.

LED fixtures last until next gen come out; much like cell phones.

I’m too broke for all that. I’m on my 6th cell phone in 25 years. I only get a new one when the previous one stops working entirely.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I’m too broke for all that. I’m on my 6th cell phone in 25 years. I only get a new one when the previous one stops working entirely.

You, my friend, are exceptional.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Many enthusiasts have long favored LEDs over T5s, citing the belief that while T5 bulbs require annual replacement, LEDs will remain robust for over a decade. But where did this enduring myth about the infinite lifespan of LEDs originate?

Prominent manufacturers such as Kessil highlight a life expectancy of 35,000 hours for their lights, which translates to around 5-7 years for the average user. Similarly, Philips' coral care lights advertise 25,000 hours at full light output, amounting to just 2.5 years or up to 5 years if operated for 12 hours daily.

Considering the quality reputation of these brands, one might infer that other less renowned brands might offer even shorter lifespans. A notable observation from a forum memeber mentioned that the Red Sea ReefLed 90, which originally emitted 800 par directly underneath when new, declined to 600 par after just two years.

Moreover, there have been accounts of hobbyists who, upon integrating a second identical LED unit, observed noticeable discrepancies in brightness even with identical settings.

This evidence suggests that LEDs, akin to traditional bulbs, experience degradation over time, with shifts in spectral output mirroring that of bulbs and tubes. Contrary to popular belief, studies by BRS have shown that T5 tubes can function effectively for more than 18 months before requiring replacement. Furthermore, they offer superior light spread compared to other sources. This accentuates the argument that LED fixtures dont really provide value for their cost. If one were to compare, they'd only need three sets of T5 bulb replacements over the lifespan of an average LED fixture and would likely achieve superior results, especially with specific corals like sps.

I see a lot of purposeful conflation, click bait and nothing of substance or even worth discussion.

There is no argument or debate to be had here. LEDs do degrade over trine, but not at the same rate or via the same mechanism as other lighting sources. Some sources just get dimmer, others may drastically change spectrally.

The degradation comes from junction breakdown and phosphor breakdown. The lifespan and degradation curves are well defined for each led from each major manufacturer. The output and spectral changes depend on the type of junction and phosphors used.

You can find the same data from most other major lamp manufacturers.

 

[buruskeee]

No one runs LEDs at 100% intensity. It’s also not linear when you run lower - like running each 1 percent lower doesn’t extend another 1 percent of life, it’s exponential. LEDs, the diodes, can last a very long time. The fixture/build/power/circuits are another story and depends on the manufacturer.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

This thread is lacking a lot of proof and is full of conjecture.

Not that this is proof, but it's more than anyone else is producing.

The guy plotted the specteumnof an old radion g4 and a never opened radion g4 and compared the light spectrums...

It appears that there wasn't much of a shift in the colors, and it flies in the face that technology stopped at MH and or T5s.

Solved - LED - Do aged LEDs' intensity/spectrums change? Maybe? Radion Gen 4 XR30 spectrum comparison

I wanted to test the position some have that LEDs change, or dim, over time. Given my huge sample size of two Gen 4 XR30s (not huge), I can wave the bull flag. The old XR30 was purchased used when the Gen 5 was released and has been used as my primary light ever since. The new XR30 was...

humble.fish

 

[Spare time]

"your never going to be able to grow corals better with LEDs."

There are opinions and there are facts. This sir, is an opinion. You have nothing to back that claim but possibly anecdotes of what you want to believe. Why do I know that? Because t5/halide people on this forum have repeatedly made this claim, and fail every single time to show this to be the case, despite what they believe.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

A part from the power saving aspect which is not very much at all over T5's, there is no benefits to using LEDs from a tank health and coral growth perspective. Absolutely none!

For some, the heat factors into things. LEDs add much less heat to my tank than T5s. I have an 8 bulb ATI that I wanted to use but had to settle for a 4 bulb T5/led hybrid; I would have had to add a chiller otherwise.

 

[A. grandis]

There are opinions and there are facts. This sir, is an opinion. You have nothing to back that claim but possibly anecdotes of what you want to believe. Why do I know that? Because t5/halide people on this forum have repeatedly made this claim, and fail every single time to show this to be the case, despite what they believe.

Wow. Is that true? Could you please point ONE time such claim had failed? You said many times.. please point one. It's actually the opposite! Most LED users that had actual experienced with halides and T5s will tell you how much they appreciate them instead of LEDs! The great majority of people that prefers LEDs will tell you it's not for it's actually qualities of light (spectrum, spread and delivery), but for control, "less heat", and "less electricity consumption".
People used to have the excuse that coral farms are using LEDs and then LEDs would be the best to grow corals.









Mike... his corals are more colorful and growth is faster! Watch the whole video.


Bottom line comes to the ultimate experienced. Jake had access and used the majority of LEDs in the market. He LOVED LEDs and only had LEDs, but quality of light is what best grow corals.

Halide/T5 POWER! Quality above any excuses!
I respect personal preferences, but facts are facts!
Sorry, I couldn't just let this one go unpunished. LOL!