These prices ... really?

[reeffirstaid]

I don't want to upset anyone, and as a long time reef aquarist, and avid coral trader, I know the time and expertise it takes to raise, frag, ship and sell a coral. But honestly, what is up with tiny frags selling for 400-500-600+ dollars. Colonies going for over 800? Beautiful chalices have been around for a long time, and can often be picked up from an unknowing LFS for 40 or 50 bucks. I can't seem to justify how people are charging these insane prices for frags, unless the mother colony is between 10,000-30,000 dollars. Is this considered fine coral collecting, or an insane rip off, and our these sellers paying tens of thousands for colonies, or are they getting rich selling pretty corals, that cost the same as other pretty corals, for insane prices. I have some gorgeous chalice corals, as pretty if not prettier than those I see for sale. They've grown from frags, and if I were to frag them and sell the frags, I would feel pretty crazy asking 400-500 dollars a fragment. Are people really this gullible, to pay that kind of price?


***Note from revhtree***
Here is the deal. This thread is awesome and I am all for you guys talking about this subject. That being said I am asking you to discuss these issues without the use of vendor names or implications of a vendor. If you can't do what I am asking you will be removed from this thread and asked not to post. This thread will stay open. If we have to remove a post from you from this point on you will be asked to not post. Thanks.

 

[Aquarium Art]

hahah i see this all the time . i sell colonies only and the basically star at 80$+ and then i see some people that they just want to buy a polyp for 300$ . Am like W/E there will be a point when this faze dies out and people become a bit smarter with there money

 

[ReefMadScientist]

Yes people are gullible....and ESPECIALLY on this website. So called "collectors" buy these RENAMED coral and act like they have some sort of show piece. Not even to mention the over-saturdated PhotoShop that is going on around here. I strictly buy my corals from my LFS who hand picks and sends me a REAL photo of what the items look like. I would only buy from Joe and BattleCorals on here.

This hobby is great and all, but too many people getting ripped off creating the market to be over-priced. YOU CAN'T blame the vendors for making a buck when some goof is willing to throw their money towards a $800 plug that is not-healed.

 

[Battlecorals]

Couldn't agree more. Wild stuff fetching prices like we've seen boggles my mind. As one that strives for a fully aqucultured inventory, For me wild growth on acros have always been excellent freebie material no matter how pretty. Clipping them helps promote captive growth anyway. Call me old fashioned or maybe a generous bone head but I just don't value wild growth on sps really at all. Too unpredictable. I think I am in the minority on this one though

 

[Pete polyp]

I really wonder how many of these $1500 per inch frags are really sold and if its not all just marketing hype. Funny how there are hardly any photos of these in the hands of hobbyists.

 

[Djtonton]

Yes people are gullible....and ESPECIALLY on this website. So called "collectors" buy these RENAMED coral and act like they have some sort of show piece. Not even to mention the over-saturdated PhotoShop that is going on around here. I strictly buy my corals from my LFS who hand picks and sends me a REAL photo of what the items look like. I would only buy from Joe and BattleCorals on here.

This hobby is great and all, but too many people getting ripped off creating the market to be over-priced. YOU CAN'T blame the vendors for making a buck when some goof is willing to throw their money towards a $800 plug that is not-healed.

+a million on this one. Its unreal how a stupid name could up the value of a coral by hundreds of dollars. I purchase corals based on their colors and if I like the look not cause someone calles it some ridiculous name "Pink Panther Thousand $ Acro" because it has a hue of pink in it. This hobby has changed so much in the span of 10 years its crazy. Especially when you get a peak at what these colonies actually cost. some vendors are making the colony + $$$ on 1 small frag its CRAZZZZYYY like this---> :flypig:


What im also finding to be odd is if you happen to post corals up for sale without names no one wants to buy it, or they constantly ask whats that coral called.....Who cares what the name is :faint2:

Sorry about the rant im done now :crossedlips:

 

[Ryan2428]

+1 for what battle just said

 

[MounteeFrag]

I'm glad someone started this thread. I watched a sale go on this weekend that I just shook my head at the prices. I seen a 1" frag of acro with a price $450 and the best part was you still had to pay $50 to ship. We need to educate people more so if anything prices will start to fall.

 

[like-fish]

just have to tell this story: TRUE STORY!! A few years back I was talking to a friend who owns a local reef store. He made mention of a pile of chalice frags in his "cheap coral" tank that he could not sell and needed to move em out for to make space. He raised the prices on each piece from $15 to $50 and put them in his "high end" tank. They all sold that weekend! He didn't add names or make any claims as to there "uniqueness" he simply raised there prices. I guess some folks like to shop based on perceived value. If its more expensive it must be something special? People are crazy!!!

 

[cdness]

Here we go again...

On a professional level I do understand the basic laws of supply, demand, and capitalism at it's best. The price will increase as the supply (or perception of supply through creative marketing) decreases. However with that said, the supply of said product(coral) will continue to grow and produce more. The supply of additional frags is thus controlled by selling frags so small it will take forever to grow out large enough to frag, in essence halting the hobbiest trade of said coral allowing the original seller to profit more before the market levels off. Then comes in marketing plays on words like "Limited Edition", "Ultra", "New Release" and other terms to give the buyer an impression of something "special". All of this adds to the increase in price. I understand that a person has every right to charge what they want for a coral. I also know there are some that have deep enough pockets to support the higher price tags...

On a PERSONAL level though, I find the coral prices outrageous and the frag sizes down right disappointing. I cannot and will not fall victim to the marketing tactics and start believing there is really a "Limited Edition" of any coral in the ocean. I sometimes wonder if we have divers who have covered every inch of the ocean and cataloged every coral out there so we can successfully support the "LE" claims. So I will sit back and watch the market as I will never fork over that kind of money for a coral frag. I am actually disappointed that some people actually do buy them as they are supporting the marketing and showing that the prices can go even higher and someone, somewhere will buy the coral for whatever a person asks for it. This goes for commercial and hobby level sellers.

However with all that said, I need to give props to those who send out frags that are good size and fully healed. Additional props go out when said frags are also priced affordable, photographed correctly and come in well shipped and healthy. I will not mention names, but those of you who fall into the last two sentences, thank you for being the quality seller that you are. Thank you for not falling into the trend and keeping this hobby and the livestock you sell at a higher quality but still within reach of the average hobbiest.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

+a million on this one. Its unreal how a stupid name could up the value of a coral by hundreds of dollars. I purchase corals based on their colors and if I like the look not cause someone calles it some ridiculous name "Pink Panther Thousand $ Acro" because it has a hue of pink in it.

Exactly. People worried about what to tell their "other collector" pals at the Elk's Lounge.

My LFS had a nasty looking Pink Millie for only 30 bugs per frag. If it were on here with a certain name or vendor name attached to it - it would had gone for a good $400.

 

[Rskillz]

I really wonder how many of these $1500 per inch frags are really sold and if its not all just marketing hype. Funny how there are hardly any photos of these in the hands of hobbyists.

^^^^^They are going for the "perception is reality" marketing.

 

[Ryan2428]

Personally I have bought frags from members like Pete polyp at 25 too 75 percent cheaper then I have seen . I like to look at the frags but in all reality I never would spend the amounts that some of them ask my rant is over ty

 

[Jonreefer]

I agree totally. When I see those items go for sale and its like 500+ for a small frag pack I just laugh. Just cause it has some silly name attached to it.

 

[Pete polyp]

+a million on this one. Its unreal how a stupid name could up the value of a coral by hundreds of dollars. I purchase corals based on their colors and if I like the look not cause someone calles it some ridiculous name "Pink Panther Thousand $ Acro" because it has a hue of pink in it. This hobby has changed so much in the span of 10 years its crazy. Especially when you get a peak at what these colonies actually cost. some vendors are making the colony + $$$ on 1 small frag its CRAZZZZYYY like this---> :flypig:


What im also finding to be odd is if you happen to post corals up for sale without names no one wants to buy it, or they constantly ask whats that coral called.....Who cares what the name is :faint2:

Sorry about the rant im done now :crossedlips:

Couldn't agree more. People will pay $200 for a single polyp of "make you wanna slap yo momma paly" even if they're bland. I have a sale thread right now with amazing polyps for what I consider very cheap. The $200 polyp will sell in 2 hours bland colors and all. But a beautiful fully covered frag plug won't sell for $40

If it wasn't something I find wrong in doing I would Photoshop the heck out of them and offer them at $100 per polyp.

 

[Djtonton]

Here we go again...

On a professional level I do understand the basic laws of supply, demand, and capitalism at it's best. The price will increase as the supply (or perception of supply through creative marketing) decreases. However with that said, the supply of said product(coral) will continue to grow and produce more. The supply of additional frags is thus controlled by selling frags so small it will take forever to grow out large enough to frag, in essence halting the hobbiest trade of said coral allowing the original seller to profit more before the market levels off. Then comes in marketing plays on words like "Limited Edition", "Ultra", "New Release" and other terms to give the buyer an impression of something "special". All of this adds to the increase in price. I understand that a person has every right to charge what they want for a coral. I also know there are some that have deep enough pockets to support the higher price tags...

On a PERSONAL level though, I find the coral prices outrageous and the frag sizes down right disappointing. I cannot and will not fall victim to the marketing tactics and start believing there is really a "Limited Edition" of any coral in the ocean. I sometimes wonder if we have divers who have covered every inch of the ocean and cataloged every coral out there so we can successfully support the "LE" claims. So I will sit back and watch the market as I will never fork over that kind of money for a coral frag. I am actually disappointed that some people actually do buy them as they are supporting the marketing and showing that the prices can go even higher and someone, somewhere will buy the coral for whatever a person asks for it. This goes for commercial and hobby level sellers.

However with all that said, I need to give props to those who send out frags that are good size and fully healed. Additional props go out when said frags are also priced affordable, photographed correctly and come in well shipped and healthy. I will not mention names, but those of you who fall into the last two sentences, thank you for being the quality seller that you are. Thank you for not falling into the trend and keeping this hobby and the livestock you sell at a higher quality but still within reach of the average hobbiest.

This about sums everything up!

 

[kschweer]

Couldn't agree more. There are a few vendors known for posting extremely high priced pieces and hoping to "catch" someone who may not know any better, while selling the same pieces for a much lower price to others. I think another reason we don't see more pictures of these pieces in more peoples tank is because they can't replicate the colors of the overly saturated pictures against a clean black background in their tank and are either embarrassed that they "fell" for it or simply don't want to hear the eventual "I told you so" or "I knew it was too good to be true" from others.

 

[Djtonton]

Its funny to because 6-12 months down the road you are going to see all these crazy high priced corals selling for their appropriate price. All you have to do is wait it out....patience......

 

[-Logzor]

Its funny to because 6-12 months down the road you are going to see all these crazy high priced corals selling for their appropriate price. All you have to do is wait it out....patience......

I bought a fist-size red dragon colony earlier this year for $70 at a frag swap. Got really lucky at this price, but still, that coral was selling for a really high price not too long ago. I would say it takes a couple years, in some cases, for the prices to dive, assuming the coral is successful in the hobby. Still, the drop in the price of this coral is a representation of how fast it grows and the relative success in the hobby, some corals will drop in half of those insane high prices but not much further than that, unless until a couple years have passed.

 

[Rskillz]

Just to add--I used to own a fish store which I sold about a year ago. Much of what you see here is fresh cut Indo maricultured SPS including hundreds of milles you see floating around. Very, very rarely do they hold their color. I used to get in a rainbow one with purple and pink tips, green polyps and red in the base. Each time, it would just turn a reddish color, regardless of the type of tank it went to. Aussie SPS can be even worse. They come in looking incredible, and many turn out nice, but you truly don't know what it will morph into in captive conditions; some will turn out better, many more worse. This is why you see so many fresh cut frags, vendors get them out before they lose/morph color.

Also, many seem to be a bit heavy handed with the saturation slider in photoshop. Corals don't glow on the tips, many of the pictures are so over the top it's laughable, but you can't say anything due to mods and honestly it isn't worth it. Whatever works for them I guess.

With that said, many vendors here are awesome. I've been to WWC and their store is superb and the coral has every bit of color as their pictures. 99.9% of what they sell is completely aquacultured and post-morph, so you know exactly what you are getting. Battlecorals and Jason Fox also do a great job of selling pure aquacultured SPS that won't let you down.

I love R2R and it's certainly home to the nicest coral around, but don't buy into the hype or get into a habit of going after something purely because it's pricey or "hot," much of it is smoke and mirrors.

Just my two cents.