This aquarium concept challenges your views on microbiology, lets collect and compare answers

[Elegance Coral]

Are you sure??? SPS keepers have repeatedly found too low PO4/ NO3 levels leave to paling and dying corals, which is why the current trend is to keep these levels higher, at about the level Lasse quoted above.. Hence the previously strived for ULNS tanks are declining fast, and more and more are dosing NO3/ PO4 to feed there corals with good results..

I don't want to deviate to far from the original topic, as if we haven't already LOL, but yes I'm sure. Coral need N and P just like the rest of us, but that's different than saying they need inorganic N and P in the water where they live.

Peace
EC

 

[Mortie31]

Conversely - to play devils advocate - if it didnt work (an ulns) why would it have been marketed - and successful. My guess is that part of it is cost - and that its not any better than other 'systems'. Its like Triton - Use our chemicals and a refugium. OK - so it may work well - but is there any reason it works better than using cheaper chemicals and a refugium?

I agree some what, and I know reefers tend to follow forum/ marketing trends, but one pattern that has emerged over the last few years is towards higher nutrient input and export, which again does have high costs associated to it, I personally think that ZEO is losing users because systems tend to be on a knife edge and very labour intensive to keepcorals alive. (I’m an ex ZEO user)

 

[Mortie31]

I don't want to deviate to far from the original topic, as if we haven't already LOL, but yes I'm sure. Coral need N and P just like the rest of us, but that's different than saying they need inorganic N and P in the water where they live.

Peace
EC

Sorry my friend but the vast majority of serious SPS reefers will completely disagree with you... just browse the SPS forums..

 

[Mortie31]

I don't want to deviate to far from the original topic, as if we haven't already LOL, but yes I'm sure. Coral need N and P just like the rest of us, but that's different than saying they need inorganic N and P in the water where they live.

Peace
EC

And you just stated in post #511 that they simple passed nutrients back and forth between Zoo and the coral, and in post #506 that zooanthellae can meet 100% of the corals requirement, so where does N and P come into your above atatement?

 

[Mortie31]

I’m starting to think that @Elegance Coral is still reefing how it was accepted a decade ago, maybe time to update

 

[Elegance Coral]

That was the believe 5 years ago - not today - reality have shown it wrong

Sincerely Lasse

Like I said, for me this isn't about belief. This is science. What I've said has not been shown to be wrong.

 

[Elegance Coral]

And you just stated in post #511 that they simple passed nutrients back and forth between Zoo and the coral, and in post #506 that zooanthellae can meet 100% of the corals requirement, so where does N and P come into your above atatement?

They eat it like every other animal does.

 

[MnFish1]

Like I said, for me this isn't about belief. This is science. What I've said has not been shown to be wrong.

Yes it has - over and over lol

 

[Elegance Coral]

I’m starting to think that @Elegance Coral is still reefing how it was accepted a decade ago, maybe time to update

I get up every morning before the rest of my family and read research papers on subjects like this. My understanding of these topics is not out dated. You just don't understand what I've said.

 

[Elegance Coral]

Yes it has - over and over lol

I think we need a new thread for this one....................

 

[MnFish1]

Since I used his own article to show that his ideas were incorrect - and he disregarded my articles showing he was incorrect - I have come to the conclusion that he is just messing around here. He being @Elegance Coral. I actually enjoy reading his posts and trying to figure out what is being said - but I have to say - Im almost ready to give up on him. He seems like a really smart guy - but - doesnt know how to have a conversation/discussion.

 

[Lasse]

SDchris - can you explain what 'non-testable' means? Does that mean 'zero' or does it mean that nutrients are taken up almost immediately (as they would be on the reef). Non-testable does not mean non-existent. Also - what do you mean by 'very fast growth rates' - based on 'what'. Everyone keeps using terms that have no definition - as if everyone else knows what they are talking about.

IMO - The ULN systems works for a while (and a while can be a year or two) just because of this inorganic nutrient recycling that EC is so afraid of. In the beginning when you measure zero in PO4 and NO3 in the water column - the zooxanthella can get their inorganic nutrient demand from the recycled - from the "stored" nutrients that the bacteria convert to PO4 and NH3/NH4 and NO3. They works as a vacuum cleaner. After a while - with different time span and growing coral biomass this storage for transformed NO3 and PO4 (and the PO4 bound as calcium phosphate in the gravel and stones) is empty - nor enough is recycled and the daily input will be consumed directly and not enough for some corals (some LPS, softies, mushrooms and GSP goes first). When all storage is empty - not enough inorganic nutrient is recycled - the red or brown pest hit. It is not coincidentally that cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates can erupt in newly started aquaria as well. New aquaria has normally not any reserves to recycle - especially when we cure our living rocks to death too.

And many, many aquarium with even SPS is run without any coral feeding. Polyp expansion can have other reasons than feeding behavior.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[MnFish1]

I get up every morning before the rest of my family and read research papers on subjects like this. My understanding of these topics is not out dated. You just don't understand what I've said.

This I can agree with. But the reason people don't understand (IMHO) is that you dont reply directly to what is being said, instead you change it up a bit - leading to more confusion.

 

[Mortie31]

I get up every morning before the rest of my family and read research papers on subjects like this. My understanding of these topics is not out dated. You just don't understand what I've said.

If this is true, then your saying all reefers dosing N and P and keeping levels higher are wrong...and that tanks aren’t improving and coral growth and colouration isn’t improving because of doing it and that you are correct, and everyone else is wrong!!!

 

[MnFish1]

I think we need a new thread for this one....................

LOL. no - I think this is a great thread to discuss it - I related it to both what you're thesis was - and Brandon's . @brandon429 gave a thoughtful reply to the questions. I haven't seen that from everyone here.

 

[Lasse]

I get up every morning before the rest of my family and read research papers on subjects like this. My understanding of these topics is not out dated. You just don't understand what I've said.

When - it should not be difficult to answer my question of which filter or process that can take away most of the wastes between two feedings - this that you mentioned in an earlier post and refuse to answer - probably there is no such filter or process because it is a rather impossible task - or is it such a filter or process in your opinion?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Elegance Coral]

When - it should not be difficult to answer my question of which filter or process that can take away most of the wastes between two feedings - this that you mentioned in an earlier post and refuse to answer - probably there is no such filter or process because it is a rather impossible task - or is it such a filter or process in your opinion?

Sincerely Lasse

What part of "hypothetical", or "make believe" do you not understand??????
Why are you obsessed with this?????
It wasn't a real filter or a real system...........
Let it go man......

 

[Lasse]

Can you tell me how these corals eat? I can´t find any polyps and when I dose my own coral food during night time (yes - there is some corals that eat too) they are shrunken in and there is only some stony parts or a thin skin (GSP) when coral food is available. When I have full lighting they are expanded and . giving a large surface for photosynthesis - and they grow like hell. -

without any food. Only by photosyntesis.
​

​

Sincerely Lasse​

 

[Lasse]

What part of "hypothetical", or "make believe" do you not understand??????
Why are you obsessed with this?????
It wasn't a real filter or a real system...........
Let it go man......

If it was not a real system - why take an example that was build on this function - If it is not real and in function - we can´t go that path. We have to go another way to create an good environment for our corals. But it is interesting that you say that is not exist such a system. If have seen claims that such a system exist - even that it cleans the corals from bacterial mucus and so on. But I buy your statement that such system does not exist.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[MnFish1]

What part of "hypothetical", or "make believe" do you not understand??????
Why are you obsessed with this?????
It wasn't a real filter or a real system...........
Let it go man......

The problem with make-believe is that the conclusions from that scenario are also 'make-believe'. For heavens sake - your own article proved you incorrect. The recycling hypothesis is decades old - and is outdated.