Thoughts on methods of eliminating water changes ?

[Tristren]

Sure.

If you add sodium carbonate and calcium chloride, and let corals consume calcium carbonate for skeletons, you leave sodium and chloride in the water. That increases salinity over time.

In a perfect two part or balling, they add more things so that you leave more than just sodium and chloride. You leave everything that is in seawater.

So the net effect is no change in the composition of the water, but the salinity rises. That part is exactly like adding water during a water change.

When you adjust the salinity back to normal, that is exactly like removing water in a water change.

Ah, gotcha! Thanks

That is interesting in this context then. If those solutions were more dilute, would that mean that you could have an all in one that added everything you want (calcium carbonate, and all the other stuff) and kept salinity stable as well?

 

[Donovan Joannes]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

I wonder why you are dosing silicate? Anything you want to share, at least to me as this is very interesting to know.

 

[scheek]

I agree. But you are certainly not measuring everything. We can't.

Agreed

I can measure the same ones that I could with a water change. I think in the next ten years we will see a shift in the hobby from old ways to new ways. I am not saying one is right and another is wrong. I just think we should look for other options. I spent years doing all kinds of tanks and every size you can think of 2 1/2 gallon all the way up to 400+. I spent 25 years trying different ways (filter systems ). It took 24 years for me to try a sulphur reactor and I will tell you right now that I will never ever have another system with out one. I tried everything out there and the combination of it with a skimmer with a CO2 scrubber is the most stable system

 

[scheek]

I think it's a great Idea, it's one inch of hammer for every 10 gallons of water.

LOVE IT !!!!
I need 3 hammers

 

[bif24701]

Many macroalgae do benefit from supplemental iron. Some can green up in a day or two of first dosing if they are depleted.

I have problems with my cheato when I don't change the water frequently. I do 100 gallon water changes with 000 TDS Water and IO salt every 1-2 week(s). If I go 4+weeks the macro algae really takes a hit. However my display seems to do very well with going 3 or more weeks of no changes. Cyano and dinos are gone from the display after 3-4 weeks without a change. I've conclude that the water changes feed the cyano, dinos, and macro algaes. This is what I meant by the question. Have you noticed that cyano/Dinos also respond to the water changes ?

Triton system includes specific elements meant to support macro algae in the system due to its dependency on growing it in a refugium for nutrient control. I know that you dosed Iron and silica for your macro algae and automated 1% daily water changes.

I am attempting to reduce my water changes to 4+weeks and dose the iron in hopes that there will not be cyano and dinos in the display yet my cheato will thrive. Where can I access silica for marine aquarium dosing?

Could it be the IO salt that is supporting the cyano, could I benefit from another salt? Randy, you used IO exclusively correct?

 

[jason2459]

If you believe the water change is feeding the dinos or cyano then it would be the same with any saltmix and some most likely with organics in them would be worse then basic IO.

Dosing trace elements would likely cause the same issue. It would most likely be that some element(s) are being replenished that they are being limited by.


Fwiw, I do daily 1% automatic water changes with IO. I have confirmed different types of dinos and cyano under the microscope.

The water changes do not cause a bloom in my case. Normally I do not see any of the pests with the naked eye.

 

[Lasse]

There is a way to get a rough estimate of organic molecules built-up in the water. All decomposing will give humic compounds into the water. The water get a tint of yellow. Humus is a rather stable organic compound, difficult to breakdown. Fill two white containers (rather high and narrow) - one with aquarium water – one with new and fresh saltwater. Look at them from above. Now you can rather easy see a yellow tint in your aquarium water (if you have humus in the water).

In order to get rid of the humus (and the yellow tint) I have test different methods. Active carbon (it absorbs organic molecules) did not work especially good for me. Ozone (it will oxidise organic molecules) work (low amounts) good but there is a safety problem with using ozone (for me and my family). In my new setup I use a Söchting oxydator in order to get rid of the humic compounds (it will also oxidise organic molecules). Its work rather good. If it takes other organic molecules – I do not know but I sure it will oxidise other than only the humic molecules. I have a lot of softies and LPS in the aquarium – some SPS grow well, acropora survive but does not grow in a fast rate.



Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

I wonder why you are dosing silicate? Anything you want to share, at least to me as this is very interesting to know.

I think it helps many organisms I kept, especially sponges.

The article bellow has much more:

Feature Article: Silica In Reef Aquariums ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/feature.htm

from it:

Silica Dosing Recommendations
Why would I recommend dosing silica? Largely because creatures in our tanks use it, the concentrations in our tanks (at least in mine) are below natural levels, and the sponges, mollusks, and diatoms may not be getting enough to thrive.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ah, gotcha! Thanks

That is interesting in this context then. If those solutions were more dilute, would that mean that you could have an all in one that added everything you want (calcium carbonate, and all the other stuff) and kept salinity stable as well?

No, there's no way around the accumulation of sodium and chloride, regardless of how you dose the sodium carbonate and calcium chloride.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have problems with my cheato when I don't change the water frequently. I do 100 gallon water changes with 000 TDS Water and IO salt every 1-2 week(s). If I go 4+weeks the macro algae really takes a hit. However my display seems to do very well with going 3 or more weeks of no changes. Cyano and dinos are gone from the display after 3-4 weeks without a change. I've conclude that the water changes feed the cyano, dinos, and macro algaes. This is what I meant by the question. Have you noticed that cyano/Dinos also respond to the water changes ?

Triton system includes specific elements meant to support macro algae in the system due to its dependency on growing it in a refugium for nutrient control. I know that you dosed Iron and silica for your macro algae and automated 1% daily water changes.

I am attempting to reduce my water changes to 4+weeks and dose the iron in hopes that there will not be cyano and dinos in the display yet my cheato will thrive. Where can I access silica for marine aquarium dosing?

Could it be the IO salt that is supporting the cyano, could I benefit from another salt? Randy, you used IO exclusively correct?

Some people think water changes may spur cyano and/or dinos. I never had dino's and never tried stopping water changes as a way to reduce cyano.

I don't see a reason to think IO is any different than other salt mixes in this regard.

See the post above for silica dosing.

 

[Lasse]

I think it helps many organisms I kept, especially sponges.

Do you know if especially chaeto will grow better then adding silicia?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you know if especially chaeto will grow better then adding silicia?

Sincerely Lasse

I would expect not. Maybe worse since it doesn't use silicate and since diatoms do, adding silicate will boost them relative to green algae types. When I dose silicate, the coating on my glass turns golden brown from green for a few days:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature1

Figure 3. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass.

Figure 6. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass and adding the silica supplement.

 

[SpiderWeb]

I have learned, let your tank tell you what it needs and not what you think it should have. If all looks good,
then leave it alone! Enjoy the view!

 

[redwingrob40]

Interesting conversation and one that I am following. We recently moved and I have not had a chance to get my DT set up. The triton method is intriguing to me and I am considering trying it when I do get the tank set back up as water changes were always something that I hated when the tank was setup before. I will be watching with interest to see how things go on the BRS160 with triton. There is some great information here, thanks to all of those that have contributed.

 

[Paul B]

what environment does the RUGF create?

A RUGF creates an atmosphere where pods, worms, tube worms, bacteria and Godzilla larvae can live and reproduce all the way through the gravel and especially in the detritus laden area under the filter plate. That is a place absolutely filled with pods and worms which I can see through the bottom glass. But it depends on what you want to keep. I have breeding mandarins, 2 pairs of pipe fish and 5 or 6 queen anthias along with a few other creatures that rely on pods and worms. If you keep a tank full of moray eels, lionfish and manta rays you don't need this microcosm of miniature food sources. I personally run a very natural tank and don't use almost any of the things written about in this thread.

For many years my nitrates were under 10. Now they are 160 (as tested by a LFS because I don't have or want test kits)
My phosphate is 2.0. I don't care what the readings are because I believe most of this hobby is run on rumors. If nitrate and phosphate caused algae, I would be able to open up a produce stand in front of my tank.
But I have no algae.
Corals supposedly don't like high nitrates. I keep mostly a LPS, gorgonians, sponges and softy tank but I do have a few SPS that have quadrupled in size and have had many grow to large. (Those all croaked in an accident when my Supermodel tank sitter let the water level fall 7")

My nitrates are considered high because I keep my fish healthy which means spawning. To do that, you must feed way to much for a tank full of SPS which I am not striving for. I also use no dry foods.
I also think all this talk of trace elements is silly except if you are going for "no" water changes at all. I only change about 20% of my tank 4 or 5 times a year and only dose baking soda and drive way ice melter.
My tank runs fine and has no problems even after decades so maybe a Reverse Undergravel filter is needed to keep a tank this long, no one really knows.

 

[Paul B]

As for dosing silicates for sponges, I am not sure about that. I just trimmed about half a pound of sponge in my tank and gave it away because it grows to fast and I never dosed silicates or even know how to do that.
This blue sponge behind the anthias is about 18" wide. I have to trim it or it would cover my kitchen and I would not be able to get into my refrigerator.
I think sponges are a very under rated animal that we should all be keeping in our tanks. They act as a natural filter of microscope particles so my tank is always crystal clear and they add nothing to the water. Many of them are nice looking and they grow fast so they are almost free.
This thing has been in my tank since before Lady GaGa was born

 

[Annahra]

Man send me a hunk of that beast!!

 

[Paul B]

I gave it to the store because I couldn't give it away

 

[Annahra]

I gave it to the store because I couldn't give it away

[emoji24]

 

[Donovan Joannes]

It's good as body scrubber @Paul B