Today - ICH Reveals itself! Fallow Time Begins... Now

[tutmatt3]

If you don't want to read all - the main question from this thread is:
***Can I treat API Primafix, API Melafix, & Fritz CopperSafe all at the same time in QT for 2x small clowns, and 1x hippo tang.

-------------------

Alrighty, you guys called it, and I didn't listen when I was extra newb! Growing pains begin today! Last night, temp was at about 75, so i turned the dial on my heater to make it a little warmer and went to sleep. Turns out, I turned far more than I thought, and temp went to 84!!! I Immediately turned it down, and put in a bit fresh mixed cooler temp salt water, which reduced it to 83, and now its at 81 - so slowly going down.

It looks like this little stressful situation caused ICH to reveal itself in my clown!

I'm a newb, I didn't listen (had him for 2x weeks now, they're the ones who skipped QT and went straight into the tank. Which I treated with quick cure for 3x days, remember me? ya that guy)

He's acting similar to his first day today, breathing a bit from his mouth, not as active, and hanging a bit at the bottom. Good thing is, I DO have a QT now in which I can treat him. So here's the current scenario.

-----
QT = 10GAL tank w/ HOB filter (I ca now use bio-media from my DT since I'll be treating the QT, so hopefully it'll get some beneficial bacteria in there.), a heater, powerhead, and a decent amount of PCV pipes for hiding.

1) Currently have a blue tang in there, who is doing well, but was ABOUT to begin treating today for infection on her tail:

Products that were going to be used:
API PrimaFix in conjunction with
API Melafix

(decided on these 2x products since I liked the natural medicine [tea tree oil] in them, and that they could be used together to treat a broad range of infection)

2) Clowns will be joining the Tang today, since they need to be treated for ich.
Products that planned to be used on the tang after 14x days of infection treatment were:
Fritz Copper Safe
API Copper Test Kit
(raising at 1/4 the rate of recommended on the bottle)


So NOW that I have a tang in the QT that needs antibiotics, and a clown or 2 that need Copper, what is my best method for going about this?
I only had room for the 10gal tank (wanted a 20, but there really is no space in the house for a bigger tank)

Should I treat with antibiotics & copper at the same time? The tang tail has looked the same since day 1, but obviously needs treatment.
With the 3x fish in there (sizes, 1", & 1.5cm clowns, and a 1.5" hippo), would the 10x gal be ok, while having bio-media from DT in there with bacteria, and now doing more frequent water changes.

8x weeks of the DT fallow, correct? I do have 5x soft hairy mushrooms in there, so who knows - maybe those introduced ich.

@melypr1985 & @Humblefish , thank you 2 for all your advice & guidance.
Much love & respect. I hope to use my experience & warn others both on the forms & friends I know who plan on starting up tanks.

Thank you!!!

 

[bios]

Sorry but I don't see any ich from pics

 

[tutmatt3]

Sorry but I don't see any ich from pics

The clown, circled in red. It's only 1 (which wasn't there before). Since observed, began to breath heavier and a lack of energy.

 

[bios]

Are the eyes of the clown velied ?Does it swim front of power heads ?

 

[tutmatt3]

Are the eyes of the clown velied ?Does it swim front of power heads ?

Apologies, I don't know what velied means.
No to the powerheads

I have all 3 in QT now. Want to treat for ich & run fallow for peace of mind as well.

 

[bios]

Veiled sorry

 

[tutmatt3]

Veiled sorry

Ya I figured that was the way to spell it, but still when I look up fish Veiled eye pictures, I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for.

 

[bios]

Before to treat them for something I will try to be sure of that something
Qt and observe it is my suggestion

 

[tutmatt3]

Before to treat them for something I will try to be sure of that something
Qt and observe it is my suggestion

Understood. The pic of the clown isn't the most amazing - but when I observed it the white spot was much more impactful than the pic, and slightly raised as well.
I began the primafix / melafix in QT for the 3 (since I know the tang needs it, and it doesn't appear it would harm the clowns who don't have an infection)

Still searching for info on if copper safe is safe to add. Called fritz and they said no problem, but then recommended another one of their products so I can use in the DT that was reef safe - but I remember advice here was if it's reef safe, it most likely will not fully cure ich
So I want to run fallow & use copper to be safe.

Will keep searching for coppersafe /prima&melafix compatibility before adding in copper!
If no ich appears to form, then I can glady wait 14x days of treating with prima/mela before starting copper. Just don't want it to grow, OR WORSE - infect the easily ich-magnet tang species.

---

One good thing is now the tang is no longer hiding in the corner, and actually they're all swimming together after a feeding session.

 

[Deinonych]

I don't see any evidence of crypto (ich) from the pictures. Also, IME using Melafix/Pimafix does nothing except make your tank smell funny. I agree with the poster above that you should be certain of the diagnosis before you start throwing medications at the fish (especially something harsh like copper).

 

[tutmatt3]

I don't see any evidence of crypto (ich) from the pictures. Also, IME using Melafix/Pimafix does nothing except make your tank smell funny. I agree with the poster above that you should be certain of the diagnosis before you start throwing medications at the fish (especially something harsh like copper).

Got it. You've tried Mela/Prima with no success?

 

[Humblefish]

I also see no solid evidence of ich, based on your pictures.

 

[4FordFamily]

I also see no solid evidence of ich, based on your pictures.

Agreed.

Also don't mix pimafix and melafix with copper or other meds.

I also agree that neither medicine really does anything.

 

[tutmatt3]

Hah, so I guess I'm just being overly paranoid. The actions of the clown in addition to the one spot I noticed prompted my response.

Since I have all 3 in qt now, looks like the only option is to keep them there, just in case of cross contamination (bio media was swapped to encourage bacteria in the qt)

I'm going to be safe and run dt fallow and keep them in qt. Only true way to achieve peace of mind & ensure ich free, right?

Copy that on not mixing - unless necessary.
Since I began with mela/prima, I'll continue for 10-14 days and observe. Many people seem to have success on mild cases (seems to be what I have), so I'll report back after and let you know if the product actually has success or not. If not, I will move onto furan2/konaplex

The rock with the mushrooms I acquired and put in my display tank came from a fellow reefer - which at this point "I'm going to assume anything coming from someone else's tank or lfs" has ich. This is another reason I plan to run fallow

Is there anything I can do when introducing new coral to ensure an ich free DT?

Giving the situation, what would you guys do if this was yours? Wanted to treat the tang with copper once the tail is healed, but now all 3 are there. I assume running 2ppm copper for a month wouldn't be the worst thing, right?

 

[4FordFamily]

I take that back I do see a small white dot on the clown-- if it stays for a few days then falls off and a few new appear in a few days thereafter you have ich.

 

[4FordFamily]

Hah, so I guess I'm just being overly paranoid. The actions of the clown in addition to the one spot I noticed prompted my response.

Since I have all 3 in qt now, looks like the only option is to keep them there, just in case of cross contamination (bio media was swapped to encourage bacteria in the qt)

I'm going to be safe and run dt fallow and keep them in qt. Only true way to achieve peace of mind & ensure ich free, right?

Copy that on not mixing - unless necessary.
Since I began with mela/prima, I'll continue for 10-14 days and observe. Many people seem to have success on mild cases (seems to be what I have), so I'll report back after and let you know if the product actually has success or not. If not, I will move onto furan2/konaplex

The rock with the mushrooms I acquired and put in my display tank came from a fellow reefer - which at this point "I'm going to assume anything coming from someone else's tank or lfs" has ich. This is another reason I plan to run fallow

Is there anything I can do when introducing new coral to ensure an ich free DT?

Giving the situation, what would you guys do if this was yours? Wanted to treat the tang with copper once the tail is healed, but now all 3 are there. I assume running 2ppm copper for a month wouldn't be the worst thing, right?

I turned my 125 in to a makeshift coral and invert qt. Kind of extreme but gives me something to use it for before I break it down.

 

[tutmatt3]

Yay so I'm not crazy!!! Here's a pic at the same time under bluer light. Whit dot towards the bottom prior to the tail section.

Yeah I only have the one QT, which will be used for fish, but I doubt dipping will do much to rid an anemone/coral of the POSSIBLE ich it could have

 

[melypr1985]

I see the little dot.

Is there anything I can do when introducing new coral to ensure an ich free DT?

You would need a fishless frag tank to keepthe corals in for 76 days before introducing them.

Giving the situation, what would you guys do if this was yours? Wanted to treat the tang with copper once the tail is healed, but now all 3 are there. I assume running 2ppm copper for a month wouldn't be the worst thing, right?

I would go ahead and treat for ich on all of them. Better safe than sorry. Don't mix the melafix or primafix with copper. They probably won't do anything for you, but as long as you are watching carefully, it should be fine to try. Good luck!

 

[tutmatt3]

I see the little dot.


You would need a fishless frag tank to keepthe corals in for 76 days before introducing them.

I would go ahead and treat for ich on all of them. Better safe than sorry. Don't mix the melafix or primafix with copper. They probably won't do anything for you, but as long as you are watching carefully, it should be fine to try. Good luck!

Thank you all so much. Then so it's decided. I will continue mela/prima for 14x days to see if we can resolve the tangs tail.
Who knows, if proven successful it might be noteworthy!

I will monitor closely, and if the tail gets worse, I'll run carbon, large water change, and switch to the previous recommended antibiotics (I don't believe it'll get worse, so far it hasn't changed in the one week I've had her)

If ich decides to breakout, then as mentioned above, I'll carbon, large water change and begin copper, praying that the tail remains the same once again.

Looks like I have 11 weeks of them in qt, so I have plenty of time now to observe & treat.

Thanks everyone, will keep posted if anything changes!

 

[tutmatt3]

After careful observation, I decided to do a 50% WC (tank had 1x dose each of melafix/pimafix), and treat copper (1/3 dose)
This was the lil guys' response. Began rubbing himself all over the floor (ignore the snapchat text to my gf)

My understanding is the parasite is now irritated w/ the copper, and in return irritating the clown. How long after a dosing is it safe to assume an accurate measuring w/ the test kit? Few hours? (have 1x powerhead and 1x filter w/ a sponge circulating the water)
I hope the melafix/pima fix don't alter the test results (doubt it since they're more natural remedies), but switching over to copper now, and will target this as primary focus.