Too much Flow?

[Mikey-D]

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• Your total water volume will be lower than the calculated 73g. It will be closer to 50g once you factor in water displaced by rock and a lower water level in various sump sections.
• Regardless of how strong your return pump is, you will need additional wavemakers in a 3ft long tank to avoid dead spots.
• I believe in buying what you need now and not buying for a future upgrade. There will always be newer, better equipment once you are ready for the upgrade.

That makes sense....so well say real life volume ...50(dt) + 20(sump) = 70 x 10 = 700. I have 2 flow pumps, Octopulse(1600GPH). Also im running hydros and everything can be tuned down.

In theory I would need to turnover 700gph(ish). In a 75g tank.

Calculating head loss at 100gph(5' pipe) + 225( 3 elbows) + 15(3 unions) + 75(1 wye gate) = 415(ish) loss of head pressure. A return pump would need to be at least 1115gph to cover the turnover.

My overflow is a 2400gph with a gate valve using 1" pipes.

To fix:
I would want to run 800/1600gph overflow vise the 2400gph and still use 1" pipe? With the return keep everything to plan and dial down the return pump? Im trying to save as much costs that i already put into this but also run this properly and understand what the limiations of my tank can and cant do

 

[Koh23]

Are we talking here about sump-display turnower, or just total turnower in display?

 

[Mikey-D]

Are we talking here about sump-display turnower, or just total turnower in display?

Total volume turnover. Display and sump. I am running a fuge, skimmer, biopellet and triton method dosing. I need at least 10x turnover.....

Edit. My girls might surprised me with 120 gallon i have been eyeing on. hahaha *** all this may have been for nothing...though i do love the conversations in here. I learn so much from you guys!

 

[Koh23]

5 to 10 sound really low, even for softies and lps.....

I'm somewhere at 33 times in my 600l system (actual water), and still there is some room for improvement, and higher flow....

In my case, 10 turnover is only around 6000lph or 1500-ish gph, and in my head that sounds dangerously low.....

 

[Mikey-D]

5 to 10 sound really low, even for softies and lps.....

I'm somewhere at 33 times in my 600l system (actual water), and still there is some room for improvement, and higher flow....

In my case, 10 turnover is only around 6000lph or 1500-ish gph, and in my head that sounds dangerously low....

What return pump do you use?

 

[Koh23]

I have blau 4kdc, that is around 1500gph....

But, main purpose of return pump is not to create or add flow to display, at least not in any greater quantity, it simply serves to deliver water from sump to dt..... And of course, to power ac reactor and uv lamp....

In display are two sow8, 2245gph per unit....at max speed, which usualy mean little in wave, or any other mode than constant speed....

So in theory, half of time, actual flow is 50% or less than maximal. Same for return pump, reactor, uv lamp, hmax drop.....

Thats why i said, i believe there is room for some more power.

Or maybe i'm too in "too much flow" category.....

 

[ReefGeezer]

I always thought that turnover was expressed as the number of times the display tank volume was pumped per hour. Thus a 40B @ 10X would be 400 gallons per hour. Personally, I have toyed with all sorts of turnover rates over the years and settled @ 5X-ish as my preferred rate. In my 90, I run a pump that is rated at about 550 GPH at the return plumbing's calculated head pressure. The exact number doesn't really matter as long as it is not too fast or too slow. I would certainly think your plan falls into the too fast category.

Higher flow rates cause a host of problems: 1) Noise; 2) MICROBUBBLES; 3) Irritation of fish and corals by excessive flow; 4) Higher than intended water levels in the display tank; 5) Excessive turbulence in the sump; and 6) More water being required to be housed in the sump before the siphon break should the pump stop running. I would never run much more than maybe 10X.

 

[Mikey-D]

I have blau 4kdc, that is around 1500gph....

But, main purpose of return pump is not to create or add flow to display, at least not in any greater quantity, it simply serves to deliver water from sump to dt..... And of course, to power ac reactor and uv lamp....

In display are two sow8, 2245gph per unit....at max speed, which usualy mean little in wave, or any other mode than constant speed....

So in theory, half of time, actual flow is 50% or less than maximal. Same for return pump, reactor, uv lamp, hmax drop.....

Thats why i said, i believe there is room for some more power.

Or maybe i'm too in "too much flow" category.....

hahahaha this is a crazy hobby....I never thought i would find myself diving deep into high school math and bio and wanting to know the answers searching for more!!

Im having a better approach on this and I appreciate your time!

I am going to run 2 octo pulse with the varios 6 for return. I have somethings to return but with that i think ill have everything in order. The 120 will have dual returns and drains so my plumbing schematic just changed too. yay me.....but im super excited for the 120!!

 

[Mikey-D]

I always thought that turnover was expressed as the number of times the display tank volume was pumped per hour. Thus a 40B @ 10X would be 400 gallons per hour. Personally, I have toyed with all sorts of turnover rates over the years and settled @ 5X-ish as my preferred rate. In my 90, I run a pump that is rated at about 550 GPH at the return plumbing's calculated head pressure. The exact number doesn't really matter as long as it is not too fast or too slow. I would certainly think your plan falls into the too fast category.

Higher flow rates cause a host of problems: 1) Noise; 2) MICROBUBBLES; 3) Irritation of fish and corals by excessive flow; 4) Higher than intended water levels in the display tank; 5) Excessive turbulence in the sump; and 6) More water being required to be housed in the sump before the siphon break should the pump stop running. I would never run much more than maybe 10X.

yes, I completely agree. Like I mentioned flow and turnover rate while I was building my tank in my head and on paper were calculations that I was not familar with so I didnt know...bigger the better was my thought process.

Learning now and figuring that out I am pretty much scrapping the 40b alltogether. My girl found a gorgeous 120 with stand and canopy with dual returns and drains so after I return from deployment, were going to go that route. It will be a reconsrtuction of my original idea but good thing is I wont have to change much just add a couple more lights

 

[Koh23]

ReefGeezer

I agree, that's why i asked are we talking simply sump-dt turnover, or total amount of flow....

I kinda accepted theory that sump-dt flow don't have to be too high, in fact, slower is better, of course, keeping total water volume in mind.

If you look that way, 4000lph pump, that is automaticaly around 3000-ish when you count height loss, take some more out because of reactors, and uv lamp, of course, water from uv comes back to dt, but, it also slows down flow in some point....

2500-2800lph, or around 700-ish gph on my system is 5-6x turnover....

But, tank flow is 17000lph, or 4500gph, which gives around 32-34X turnover....

But, like i said pumps are on varijable speed mode, so, in theory, there is on average some 15-ish X turnover....

That is kinda low, right? And that proves that all math and calculation are almost uselles, with 32X full power turnover, only thing i will be turning is corals and sand in tank....

Again, maybe even this is actually high flow for soft&lps that i have....

Always wonder, should i set pumps to lets say 50% power.....

 

[Mikey-D]

ReefGeezer

I agree, that's why i asked are we talking simply sump-dt turnover, or total amount of flow....

I kinda accepted theory that sump-dt flow don't have to be too high, in fact, slower is better, of course, keeping total water volume in mind.

If you look that way, 4000lph pump, that is automaticaly around 3000-ish when you count height loss, take some more out because of reactors, and uv lamp, of course, water from uv comes back to dt, but, it also slows down flow in some point....

2500-2800lph, or around 700-ish gph on my system is 5-6x turnover....

But, tank flow is 17000lph, or 4500gph, which gives around 32-34X turnover....

But, like i said pumps are on varijable speed mode, so, in theory, there is on average some 15-ish X turnover....

That is kinda low, right? And that proves that all math and calculation are almost uselles, with 32X full power turnover, only thing i will be turning is corals and sand in tank....

Again, maybe even this is actually high flow for soft&lps that i have....

Always wonder, should i set pumps to lets say 50% power.....

So moving volume from the dt to the sump and back to the dt...granted you may or may not have some other deviation of flow through a reactor or uv(Which ive read just plumbing a second pump to move flow through those and not loose head pressure from your main return is better), but I digress. If that amunt of flow is meeting your target than thats all that matetrs in the end. Pumps can be adjusted and drain pipe can be adjusted with the using valves in order to fnd that sweet spot....which a bigger pump whouldnt have to work that hard to push the amount of volume you want

Now flow in the tank.....returns + powerheads is the main goal to establish inside the tank depending on what you are housing, some coral like less flow and others require more. Which comes into placement of heads and amount of heads to reach the desired effect you want in your tank.

All in all....I think I understand! lol The more you know

 

[Koh23]

Exactly, more important than strenght of flow is type of flow....

Pump placement, rockwork, coral placement......

I think we all are pushing far much flow than is actually needed, but, corals adapt, really no problem...