Tropic Marin All-For-Reef: Any downsides to it?

[Megability]

I've been using AFR for about 3 months on my RedSea625 (165g) to great success and just wanted to chime in. Agreed, besides being more expensive than other options I do not see any downsides, and if anything there are upsides in the sense it does not alter salinity over time, and the 1-part solution, and for me freeing up dosing heads.

I dose about 40ml daily and evenly over 24 hours via doser, to maintain about 9dkh alkalinity. I read others say that it was better to only dose during daylight hours but to me it seems like whole-day stability is better, and to match the ocean, e.g. the ocean's alkalinity does not rise and fall with sunlight, right?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Mine is this... I don't believe that ICP results, trace element concentrations and nutrient concentrations, are the ONLY reason to do water changes. Always, 100% of the time, on my systems, whenever a water change was done, the animals all looked happier the next day! Even when I could find NO apparent measurable difference between the pre and post water change water. I have a theory, of course one that cannot be backed up yet by some concrete scientific explanation, that doing a water change is a lot like giving your corals a "breadth of fresh air". I believe there are actual physical factors, that we cannot yet measure, that come into play when you have added new, clean, freshly made salt water to a closed system that the animals have been living in. I can't explain this 100%. But I watched it happen time after time with NO variation. There are still many things in reef keeping that we cannot fully explain. I believe this is one of them.

So I am a fan of periodic water changes. I am not one of these folks who thinks you need to do 10-20% strictly, every 2 to 4 weeks under penalty of torture! But I do believe that a "button" that can be pushed, that ALWAYS makes your animals look happier, should be pushed once in a while. They are telling that by the way they respond!

I have probably said a number of things that will be jumped on in this post. So I will say this... this is just my opinion and the advice that I have given, with much success, for many years. If you want to use a different approach, go ahead, it will probably work great. But you asked, so I'm tellin' !!!

Export of organics (e.g., toxins) could fit this description and is why I recommend water changes.

Speciation (oxidation state, organic complexation, etc) of the trace elements themselves may also be different in new salt water vs aquarium water, so even water with the same total concentration of, say, Mn or Fe, may have very different bioavailability.

 

[jhadaway]

I have been using All4Reef for a good 8 months now. Dosing everything out of a single bottle makes things so much easier and my tank has stabilized. I am mixing a gallon at a time and the small container has lasted about three months for me so the cost isn't much of a factor. Just pegging my alkalinity keeps everything else balances. I haven't had to adjust mag or cal since I started using the AFR. Now if I could just keep nutrients from bottoming out....
I would recommend any newbie to just start with this stuff. It's one less thing to worry about in the first year.

 

[ssster2020]

I have been using All4Reef for a good 8 months now. Dosing everything out of a single bottle makes things so much easier and my tank has stabilized. I am mixing a gallon at a time and the small container has lasted about three months for me so the cost isn't much of a factor. Just pegging my alkalinity keeps everything else balances. I haven't had to adjust mag or cal since I started using the AFR. Now if I could just keep nutrients from bottoming out....
I would recommend any newbie to just start with this stuff. It's one less thing to worry about in the first year.

I am dosing All4reef through an aqua vitro doser, my parameters are for the most part stable. However a couple of times my testing results indicated lowering levels across the board. When I looked at the dosing system I found the lines were plugged at the discharge to the tank. Is this a problem with all4reef or a function of the relatively small tubes on the doser? It's a problem I don't have on my other tank where i dose Red Sea Foundation using a Red Sea doser.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I am dosing All4reef through an aqua vitro doser, my parameters are for the most part stable. However a couple of times my testing results indicated lowering levels across the board. When I looked at the dosing system I found the lines were plugged at the discharge to the tank. Is this a problem with all4reef or a function of the relatively small tubes on the doser? It's a problem I don't have on my other tank where i dose Red Sea Foundation using a Red Sea doser.

The concentration of the All-For-Reef solution is very high. The end of the dosing line may get plugged when evaporation causes crystallization.

There are two easy possibilities to prevent plugging:

- Let the dosing line end exactly at the water surface, so that every remaining drop is carried away by the water

- Connect the end of the dosing line and the top-off-line with a Y-piece. In this way the common end of both lines is flushed with RODI water regularly and crystalization is prevented.

 

[rocknurworld]

So I'm looking at various dosing pumps, trying to find one with enough heads to dose the various potions I've been trying out (Fusion 1 and Fusion 2, Ions (for magnesium), Vibrance (for iodide), and maybe even the Pax Bellum Magic Nitrate potion. Then I see Tropic Marin has an all-in-one product, namely, All-For-Reef, which includes "calcium, magnesium, strontium, and carbonate hardness elements, but also other less common elements like iodine, bromine, fluorine, selenium, molybdenum, & vanadium." So I'm thinking this is too good to be true! Given that you can use one potion for all these components (with just a single-head dosing pump), why would you NOT use this product in place of the other individual products??

what's the pax bellum magic nitrate potion???

 

[X-37B]

Thinking or trying afr.

I am dosing 8ml of esv 1&2 in my 20g.
Alk 7. I dose 8ml and it goes to 8.
24hrs later its 7. So I currently use 1dkh a day.
I have a tub of afr powder.
Tanks almost 3 months and useage is going up.
Ca 420
Mag 1350.
I dose 1ml of trace to keep mag and K inline.

Where would one start dosing afr.
Im thinking 5ml a day and monitor?
20g for reference.

 

[SWherrey]

Thinking or trying afr.

I am dosing 8ml of esv 1&2 in my 20g.
Alk 7. I dose 8ml and it goes to 8.
24hrs later its 7. So I currently use 1dkh a day.
I have a tub of afr powder.
Tanks almost 3 months and useage is going up.
Ca 420
Mag 1350.
I dose 1ml of trace to keep mag and K inline.

Where would one start dosing afr.
Im thinking 5ml a day and monitor?
20g for reference.

I was using AFR and it was awesome my ICP wasn’t too bad while using. I switched to moonshiners so ended up going for BRS Two part.

 

[jhadaway]

I've been running afr for a good year and a half. Makes things much simpler for me. I have had to adjust my magnesium and calcium twice to get back into balance but all in all it keeps everything dialed in.

 

[A Young Reefer]

Thinking or trying afr.

I am dosing 8ml of esv 1&2 in my 20g.
Alk 7. I dose 8ml and it goes to 8.
24hrs later its 7. So I currently use 1dkh a day.
I have a tub of afr powder.
Tanks almost 3 months and useage is going up.
Ca 420
Mag 1350.
I dose 1ml of trace to keep mag and K inline.

Where would one start dosing afr.
Im thinking 5ml a day and monitor?
20g for reference.

the recommended start dose is 5ml per 26 gallons. You will find that this is very low especially with a high demanding sps reef. Another thing I hate is the delayed nature of the calcium formate which takes about 48 hours to register any change in the kh. Hence I do not recommend monitoring based on kh alone monitor calcium as well.

 

[Superlightman]

I was using AFR and it was awesome my ICP wasn’t too bad while using. I switched to moonshiners so ended up going for BRS Two part.

You saw some changes with the moonshiner method?

 

[SWherrey]

You saw some changes with the moonshiner method?

So far my chaeto is growing like crazy and I have noticed a bit more growth on my acros but not much yet. I have about 2 months on it but I haven’t had to do a water change

 

[chadloomis]

So far my chaeto is growing like crazy and I have noticed a bit more growth on my acros but not much yet. I have about 2 months on it but I haven’t had to do a water change

What was your push to go to moonshiners versus AFR? I’m looking into both. Currently at a 120 display light to medium stock mixed reef.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What was your push to go to moonshiners versus AFR? I’m looking into both. Currently at a 120 display light to medium stock mixed reef.

In theory, any sort of supplement that isn’t guided by testing (e.g., trace elements in AFR) is a guess of the demand in any given tank for all different elements, while test guided dosing (such as by ICP) can, if accurate, focus in on what your specific system needs.

 

[bluerider098]

The concentration of the All-For-Reef solution is very high. The end of the dosing line may get plugged when evaporation causes crystallization.

There are two easy possibilities to prevent plugging:

- Let the dosing line end exactly at the water surface, so that every remaining drop is carried away by the water

- Connect the end of the dosing line and the top-off-line with a Y-piece. In this way the common end of both lines is flushed with RODI water regularly and crystalization is prevented.

Good idea. I do have the crystalization but my dosing pump seems to push past it. That being said I'm going to try the top off water solution.

I've been happy with it. I will note that I dose AFR in combination with continuous water change. Been using it for maybe 9 months or so and my corals have never been happier.

 

[gonedvng]

Is that it? Given the convenience, I would think it is perhaps worth the extra $$

I dont know why people are say expensive for larger tanks.I have a 180g full mixed reef and I find it alot cheaper then other products with better results.

 

[areefer01]

I dont know why people are say expensive for larger tanks.I have a 180g full mixed reef and I find it alot cheaper then other products with better results.

It is a mind story or opinion that keeps getting perpetuated. To your point it is a good product depending on what the hobbyist goals are as it relates to budget and dosing. As TM AFR is pre-made liquid and size I can see a valid point as it relates to daily dosing and cost for large systems. I do not see that point as it relates to the 1600 g powder formula / offering which makes 10 liters.

Part of that homework is taking say a two part and adding in the cost of product to make it similar, within reason, of the single solution product. Then compare estimated cost. Also there is the whole marketing thing and sense of steering someone to certain products.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dont know why people are say expensive for larger tanks.I have a 180g full mixed reef and I find it alot cheaper then other products with better results.

It is more expensive than most two part systems. It is much more expensive than limewater/kalkwasser. Whether it is too expensive, of course, is an opinion only each reefer can answer.

What product did you believe it is cheaper than?

 

[areefer01]

It is more expensive than most two part systems.

Do most two part systems add trace elements? If not what is the cost of most two part systems + the additional components AFR brings to the table? Or maybe most two parts are enough and the point is moot.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do most two part systems add trace elements? If not what is the cost of most two part systems + the additional components AFR brings to the table? Or maybe most two parts are enough and the point is moot.

Some two parts systems claim to add extra trace elements to offset consumption. ATI essentials Pro seems to fit that description.

Some two parts add just enough trace elements to offset the salinity impacts and trace element lowering when you adjust salinity back down. ESV B-ionic, TLF C-Balance, and Tropic Marin Balling or a DIY two part (using Balling Part C) fit this description.

Some two parts do not intentionally add trace elements, though some come as impurities in the main components.

IMO, if one is not going to dose trace elements separately (by ICP/dose/repeat) then it is at least second best to not tie the trace element dosing to the calcium and alk dosing, since they are not really tied together in terms of consumption.
To make the point clearer: there is no reason to think trace elements put into a product like AFR or ATI two part will be at an appropriate level for any given reef tank since the demand for calcium and alk is driven heavily by hard corals and perhaps clams, but the demand for trace elements is not (unless it is an SPS heavy tank with little in the way of macroalgae, microalgae, anemones, soft corals, bacterial driven processes such as organic carbon dosing, etc.,etc.).