Using ground probes in aquariums

[mrk1720]

I've used one for as long as I can remember.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

I not a Fan of using the House Ground for an Aquarium Ground. I prefer a Separate Grounding Rod Put through the concrete slab, but only on the inside of the dwelling. If this isn’t an option, then you need to, by all means, use the Building Ground. Going out in a Body Bag, will certainly put a damper on your hobby. My reason for this, is their is a lot of “Noise” on the house ground. I was first made aware of this noise in Computer Rooms, as part of my job working on the support equipment. I have seen this on my own house, using an Oscilloscope. BTW If you do get Shocked you need to go to the Emergency Room and get checked for an Enzyme the Heart Muscle Make when they are damaged. If you have a Headache, Vomiting, Very Sore Muscles, especially in both the arms and legs, you should go via Paramedics. Got a Severe Shock years ago, working on an AC Rooftop unit, and have been transported to the hospital. No fun!

 

[drtechno]

Do I need to install one BOTH in my sump and display tank or is it safe to assume continuity through the return side of the plumbing?

 

[Brew12]

Do I need to install one BOTH in my sump and display tank or is it safe to assume continuity through the return side of the plumbing?

I only run one in my sump. It isn't a great electrical connection but it will do it's job well enough for our application imo.

 

[JKenny]

Sharing my experience... Sorry if there's too much detail...

I had added a ground probe to my sump months ago...

I recently re-installed a Coralife UV into my DT to deal with a Dino trouble that I though I had gone away months ago. Over the past couple of weeks I've had my GFI outlet, that feeds my tank equipment, trip seemingly without cause. Nothing was switching on or off (Apex controlled tank) when the outlet tripped so I picked up a new GFI outlet but hadn't yet replaced it.

The past few days I've been adding MB7 to help with my Dino trouble and they instructions call for turning off the UV and skimmer for 4 hours after application. Yesterday, in turning the UV and Skimmer back on my GFI tripped within seconds. Reset it, as I've done a few times before, and it again tripped after a few seconds...

Plugged the tank into a non-GFI outlet and everything came back on as expected. Broke out the multimeter and measured the DT to ground and saw ~ .8 volts with everything turned on and running. I then turned off all the electric devices sitting in the water (heater, skimmer, UV lamp and pumps) removed the ground probe from the sump and cleaned it some.

Then, turning devices one after the other, the multimeter went from 1.1v to 2.7v until I turned on the Coralife UV lamp. With that turned on I started reading 111v from the DT!

A couple of lessons learned... A smart move to install a GFI outlet... A smart move to add a ground probe... A bad move to add a $160 Coralife 36w UV sterilizer to my tank - even temporarily.

I'm assuming the ground probe saved my coral (and probably myself) from the electric but now I'm concerned the compromised lamp connection has added some metal into my tank.

Hope others can benefit from my drama.

Joe

 

[Cory]

Sharing my experience... Sorry if there's too much detail...

I had added a ground probe to my sump months ago...

I recently re-installed a Coralife UV into my DT to deal with a Dino trouble that I though I had gone away months ago. Over the past couple of weeks I've had my GFI outlet, that feeds my tank equipment, trip seemingly without cause. Nothing was switching on or off (Apex controlled tank) when the outlet tripped so I picked up a new GFI outlet but hadn't yet replaced it.

The past few days I've been adding MB7 to help with my Dino trouble and they instructions call for turning off the UV and skimmer for 4 hours after application. Yesterday, in turning the UV and Skimmer back on my GFI tripped within seconds. Reset it, as I've done a few times before, and it again tripped after a few seconds...

Plugged the tank into a non-GFI outlet and everything came back on as expected. Broke out the multimeter and measured the DT to ground and saw ~ .8 volts with everything turned on and running. I then turned off all the electric devices sitting in the water (heater, skimmer, UV lamp and pumps) removed the ground probe from the sump and cleaned it some.

Then, turning devices one after the other, the multimeter went from 1.1v to 2.7v until I turned on the Coralife UV lamp. With that turned on I started reading 111v from the DT!

A couple of lessons learned... A smart move to install a GFI outlet... A smart move to add a ground probe... A bad move to add a $160 Coralife 36w UV sterilizer to my tank - even temporarily.

I'm assuming the ground probe saved my coral (and probably myself) from the electric but now I'm concerned the compromised lamp connection has added some metal into my tank.

Hope others can benefit from my drama.

Joe

Fwiw ive also experienced an electrical trip from my gfci on my lifegard 90 watt uv a few times. Ive read of one person who said they leak electricity in the tank and there is no way around it.

 

[JKenny]

Cory,

Thanks, you're a gentleman and I thank you for your post. I do appreciate that just about every electrical device will induce some voltage into the surrounding water.

Although I didn't say it in my post, there was about a 1/4 cup of water inside my UV lamp housing that had already caused some corrosion at the lamp connection so this was an honest-to-goodness device failure.

 

[alton]

Open lamps to the water and pumps running in your tank will add induced voltage to your tank. Electrical Current added to your tank is bad and is what trips your GFCI when equipment goes bad. Not your voltage.

 

[Joeg]

I'm paranoid about tank electricity and have 2 gfi circuits plus ground plugs in the tank and the sump. It might be overkill but I'd rather go that way than not have enough protection.

 

[Steve1500]

Why is it that some people refuse to put a grounding probe in their aquarium? I've seen many arguments against using them, some of which are based on what I believe to be bad information. I want to make the case for why every aquarium should have a grounding probe installed.
We have these beautiful aquariums full of salt water into which we place electrically operated equipment. Everyone has heard the phrase "Water and electricity don't mix" and it is especially true of salt water. Yet this doesn't have to be dangerous and a ground probe is key to making this safe.

An electrical shock occurs when current flows through a person. There are three main factors that impact the severity of the shock. The amount of current flowing through the person, the length of time they are being shocked, and the path the current takes through the body. For a shock to occur a person must be touching an energized conductor and a source to ground. The glass and acrylic most aquariums are made from are excellent insulators. If a pump or heater develops a fault in the salt water, it will raise all of the water in the aquarium to the same voltage as is available at the fault, typically close to 115V. If you are touching the metal housing of a light fixture or standing on wet concrete and touch the water, you become the best path for the current to take to get to ground. These shocks are most likely to take the most dangerous path, which is through our heart. It will go into the hand, through the heart, and either out the opposite hand or down through our legs. This is one way the ground probe keeps us safe. Electricity always takes the lowest resistance path to ground. The human body does have some resistance so a properly maintained ground plug will always offer a lower resistance path to ground.

I would also make the argument that the use of a ground plug is important to the health of our marine fish, but not because of a risk of electrical shock. Scientists use electro-fishing techniques to collect or count fish populations by shocking fish. Electric eels hunt prey by shocking them with electricity. So why do I say marine fish are not at risk for being shocked? They live in salt water. Electric eels are a fresh water species and electro-fishing only works fresh water. In a fresh water environment the fish is more conductive than the water just like people are more conductive than air. You cannot shock a marine fish while it is in salt water since the water is more conductive than the fish. This doesn't mean that marine fish aren't affected by electricity.

It is a generalization to say that all of the salt water is at the same voltage in our aquariums. In reality, small differences in potential can exist within the water. Eddy currents of water will cause a difference in voltage. There will be a difference in potential caused by any air bubbles that may touch a fish. While these may not cause shocks, it can cause a serious irritation across the surface of the fish. I would also point out that you do not need to have an electrical fault to have a harmful voltage in your aquarium. Any energized cord either running in the water or along the outside of the tank will create a voltage in the tank using a process called induction. This is why many people see a voltage in their aquariums without having a GFCI breaker trip. A ground probe will prevent any voltage from building up in the aquarium water, protecting our fish from these small voltage differences.

Grounding probes also protect our tank from another problem that is much harder to see and correct. If you have an electrical fault in your tank, there is a high probability that you have exposed copper in your system. This copper will corrode in salt water and the corrosion is accelerated when impacted by electricity. Even if you use a GFCI, the circuit will not trip on a fault until you have a source to ground. A ground probe will immediately provide that path to ground. If you do not have a ground probe installed, you could be leaching copper into your system for days or longer until a path to ground from your water is established.

The one argument against using ground probes I cannot counter is that it could provide a heat source during an electrical fault. If you have an electrical fault in a very narrow resistance range, and do not use GFCI protection, it can act like a heater. I know I wouldn't risk the safety of my family and friends in an effort to avoid this one scenario. I hope after reading this you won't either.

I have a ground probe in my sump and it is plugged into a 20 amp outlet that is connected to a GFCI circuit breaker. The outlet is not GFCI, the breaker is GFCI. I have two dedicated 20 amp circuits running my entire system. My probe is on circuit A with lights (3 radions, 4 T5s and a sump light that is on a timer) and AWC. The rest of the system (pumps, heaters, Apex etc) is on circuit B.

Every few days, circuit A breaker trips. I have tried removing some of the lights etc but it still trips every few days.The good thing is that only the lights go out when the CB trips.

Not sure if something on Circuit A has some stray voltage that is causing the probe to trip circuit B, but this is what i suspect. My equipment is less than 3 yrs old but I know age may not be a factor. I replaced my two 250W Eheim heaters about a year ago.

I could try turning one piece of equipment off but since it only trips every few days, this may be impractical.

I will buy a volt meter to see if i have stray voltage, but again, if it is only happening every few days, would the stray voltage show if the offending piece is not acting up?


Before I hire an electrician to ck to ensure my electrical circuit is working properly, I want to see if anyone can tell me how to find the bad tank equipment actor....this assumes the electrical circuit or the CB is not the culprit. Any ideas?

This being said, it may have anything to do w the probe tripping the breaker, it is just a hunch.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Paul B]

Is the breaker tripping or is the GFI on the breaker tripping. The breaker will trip if you are using to much current. (not likely but possible) the GFI part of the breaker will trip if it detects current leaking into the water. Induced voltage should not trip a GFI breaker but these things are so sensitive that I wouldn't rule it out.

Just as a test, Remove the ground probe from circuit A and put it someplace that is not on a GFI controlled circuit or put it on Circuit B.

This really shouldn't matter because that ground probe is not connected to your outlet as it is just using the ground prong on the outlet, but do it anyway. See if the other breaker trips.
(Master electrician 50 years)

 

[Steve1500]

Is the breaker tripping or is the GFI on the breaker tripping. The breaker will trip if you are using to much current. (not likely but possible) the GFI part of the breaker will trip if it detects current leaking into the water. Induced voltage should not trip a GFI breaker but these things are so sensitive that I wouldn't rule it out.

Just as a test, Remove the ground probe from circuit A and put it someplace that is not on a GFI controlled circuit or put it on Circuit B.

This really shouldn't matter because that ground probe is not connected to your outlet as it is just using the ground prong on the outlet, but do it anyway. See if the other breaker trips.
(Master electrician 50 years)

Not sure if the GFI on the breaker is tripping but I have to reset the breaker (not the yellow GFI button on the breaker) to get the power back. I don't have that many pieces of equipment on that circuit because of the tripping. I did notice that i also have two backup batteries and one small powerhead on this circuit in addition to the lights I mentioned.

Coincidently, the breaker just tripped again a few minutes ago. I was able to get a voltmeter and tested the water and it read 0.0V.

I try your idea about moving the probe to another circuit.

Thanks for your help Paul and BTW, I always enjoy reading your posts/articles. Informative and at the same time they are hilarious! You could probably have written a few comedy shows.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

I have a ground probe in my sump and it is plugged into a 20 amp outlet that is connected to a GFCI circuit breaker. The outlet is not GFCI, the breaker is GFCI. I have two dedicated 20 amp circuits running my entire system. My probe is on circuit A with lights (3 radions, 4 T5s and a sump light that is on a timer) and AWC. The rest of the system (pumps, heaters, Apex etc) is on circuit B.

Every few days, circuit A breaker trips. I have tried removing some of the lights etc but it still trips every few days.The good thing is that only the lights go out when the CB trips.

Not sure if something on Circuit A has some stray voltage that is causing the probe to trip circuit B, but this is what i suspect. My equipment is less than 3 yrs old but I know age may not be a factor. I replaced my two 250W Eheim heaters about a year ago.

I could try turning one piece of equipment off but since it only trips every few days, this may be impractical.

I will buy a volt meter to see if i have stray voltage, but again, if it is only happening every few days, would the stray voltage show if the offending piece is not acting up?


Before I hire an electrician to ck to ensure my electrical circuit is working properly, I want to see if anyone can tell me how to find the bad tank equipment actor....this assumes the electrical circuit or the CB is not the culprit. Any ideas?

This being said, it may have anything to do w the probe tripping the breaker, it is just a hunch.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I’ve had GFCI Breakers Trip from Fluorescent Lights, and Power Fluctuations. Power Compacts are the worse. A Surge Protection Strip helped out, preventing this.

 

[Bebow]

I can backup SteveMM experience, T5 lights can sometimes trip a GFCI. Several years ago I was chasing a GFCI trip problem, intermittent with no rhyme or reason. After researching I found a number of threads about it, fluorescent lights tripping ground faults. Don't recall all the technical reasons now but new bulbs did help.

 

[Paul B]

If the breaker itself is tripping you need an "amprobe" to test the current you are using, not a voltmeter to test stray voltage.

 

[Aardvark1134]

While a GFIC plus a grounding probe is a good combo...I would be careful with using a grounding probe without a GFIC ...it could in theory make things even worse.

 

[jmichaelh7]

I just got shocked yesterday from a broken quarts sleeve in my UV.
I’ll be heading to Home Depot today to get

1) ground probe
2) GFIC outlet.

my house is covered in them except the outlet my tank is on.

Any recommendations to just run probes in the sump ?

 

[JumboShrimp]

I like these, off Amazon. If you can’t find what you need at the big box stores. I just ordered another one (I think my 5th) today, to be here tomorrow.

 

[jmichaelh7]

I like these, off Amazon. If you can’t find what you need at the big box stores. I just ordered another one (I think my 5th) today, to be here tomorrow.

This will trip the entire system if there’s a stray voltage ?

 

[powers2001]

I just got shocked yesterday from a broken quarts sleeve in my UV.
I’ll be heading to Home Depot today to get

1) ground probe
2) GFIC outlet.

my house is covered in them except the outlet my tank is on.

Any recommendations to just run probes in the sump ?

@jmichaelh7 you should have circuit breakers on every outlet in your house or it probably won’t comply with the building codes set by your local municipality. Those breakers are in your breaker box and are the same things as the GFCI at the wall outlet. The only reason an electrician installs one of those GFCIs as a wall outlet is if the owner wants to be able to flip the switch back on at the wall outlet instead of going all the way to the breaker box to switch back on or if the wall outlet you’re going to use doesn’t have a breaker in the box.