What am I doing wrong with QT?

[Ferrell]

The short of it is I lost my entire fish population in my DT to velvet so everything gets Quarantined. Period. 76 days fallow with no swimmers is a lot.
So I have this 10 gallon tank, liberty 75 filter, nano powerhead, ammonia alert, airstones and cheapy led. BTW I Cycled tank with first batch of fish, have some sand, some rubble and pvc pipe, two 2” discs of GSP that I fragged plus a mushroom that I ripped out of DT. Figured what the heck since I was running fish through.

First batch of fish I got shipped from Vivid Aquariums. 2 clowns and a lawnmower Blenny. Went through great! Treated once with prazipro after they began eating and are doing great in DT.

2nd batch of fish was 3 what I thought were Bartlett’s and turned out to be tukas. Got them eating but slowly dropped off one by one. One made it tworse didn’t splay and was eating but died a week later. My fault on that one cause the not so LFS told me they were easy.

In between got a yellow watchman who did good in QT but was harassed by Blenny when put in DT so back to QT.

3rd-3 lyretails from LA because Vivid didn’t stock. One came in DOA, one with popeye and one O.K. treated with melafix, popeye seemed to get better then died. Last one didn’t make it either.

4th batch- 2 Bartlett’s ordered from LFS and picked up before he put them n his tanks. Both spent most of time on bottom and yesterday one died plus YWG who changed color and passed in a day.

All parameters are good. Salt at 35, nitrates at 5, no ammonia or nitrites. Do weekly 25% water changes. Do water changes after meds and run carbon. Feed LRS reef frenzy frozen, calanis, and R.O.E. for the finicky ones.
Seriously considering breaking down tank and going bare bones for next round. Opinions?

 

[JasonK84]

Did you say you had coral in a fish QT?
How are you treating for parasites? I see you mentioned prazi and that'll take care of flukes and worms but what about ich, velvet, and brook. How are treating for that?

 

[CindyKz]

Sounds like most of the fish you've lost were troubled before you got them. The only one that died that sounds like it was initially fine is the YWG.

A fallow period for the QT would be a smart safeguard since you don't know for sure what happened to those fish. 10 gal is a pretty small tank, be careful about housing too many at once.

FWIW I QT similarly - cycled tank with rock and sand.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

This should answer your question

 

[Ferrell]

i never used copper in quarantine. If I were to see signs of ich etc I would move to a hospital tank to treat.
I guess I should rethink my procedure. Back when I kept fish only (20 yrs ago) I don’t recall ever having so much problem with disease so this whole quarantine is new to me.
So I should remove everything and start over which was my next move? No sand no rock. I have some sponge filters which I’ll toss in my DT sump to seed and go with that for biological filtration in addition to power filter.
Is it necessary to treat everything with copper? I’ve read on here where some do and some don’t.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Even if fish don't show signs of ich or velvet they may still be carriers. The only way to be certain that it is eliminated is to use copper or chloroquine phosphate, depending on the specific fish's sensitivity.

 

[Maritimer]

While there are a few reefers (mostly long-time, old-school folks) who are able to run "immune" systems, for most folks QT and disease elimination seems the more prudent course of action. With ich, velvet, gram-negative infections, flukes, brooklynella and uronema rampant throughout the distribution chain, it really seems essential to medicate and eliminate before fish hit the display.

~Bruce

 

[ihavecrabs]

i never used copper in quarantine. If I were to see signs of ich etc I would move to a hospital tank to treat.
I guess I should rethink my procedure. Back when I kept fish only (20 yrs ago) I don’t recall ever having so much problem with disease so this whole quarantine is new to me.
So I should remove everything and start over which was my next move? No sand no rock. I have some sponge filters which I’ll toss in my DT sump to seed and go with that for biological filtration in addition to power filter.
Is it necessary to treat everything with copper? I’ve read on here where some do and some don’t.

I would agree with rethinking the strategy. Not because the experience you had 20 years ago was wrong by any means, but I think our fish distribution is a lot less moral and cost cutting than it once was and disease/parasite ridden.

It is crazy how often we see ich and velvet. Where it was nearly unheard of 10 years ago.

 

[Big G]

This works for me. Of course your mileage can vary:

Prophylactic Treatment: No observed symptoms of disease or injury

20 gal QT cycled:
- HOB with both the foam pad & BioMax treated with Bio Spira/Dr Tims, and foam bubble filter with foam soaked in the same, or all of them soaked for at least 2 weeks in DT sump.
- heater, powerhead, Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge.
- Tank lights off. Ambient room lighting only.
- Feed fish with white/black worms, and or vitamin & fiber packed frozen food with Selcon/Zoecon for at least 3 days
- Freshwater dip to check for flukes. If no flukes treat first with copper and this part is new, treat also with antibiotics: kanaplex, Furan2, etc.
- S-l-o-w-l-y (8-10 days) bring up copper to therapeutic levels for prophylactic treatment for 30 days: Tank lights off until therapeutic level is reached. Best to dose several times a day (AM, lunch, PM) rather than one large dose. Highly recommend use of Copper Power and a Hanna HL Copper Checker.
- Carbon & Cuprisorb to remove copper. Water changes. Observe.
- General Cure 2 doses 5-7 days apart. Turn up bubbler and turn on powerhead aimed at surface to increase O2. Like GC over Prazipro. GC has Metro + Praziquantel, so you are getting the Praziquantel which kills flukes and "some" internal parasites and Metro that kills all internal parasites/worms. And the dose of Praziquantel is lower but does the job and is easier on sensitive fish.
- Carbon & water changes.
- Observe 10-14 days.

 

[Humblefish]

In my estimation, the days of not using copper (or Chloroquine) in a QT are over. Or at least for the time being.

The supply chain is so badly "polluted" with velvet right now, that your chances of encountering that pathogen are much higher than just 5 years ago.

 

[Ferrell]

Thanks all for your input. I am definitely rethinking the whole QT. Once the the little Bartlett’s gets through this round or succumbs I’m breaking down the tank, sterilizing, getting out the meds and going bare and treating as recommended. Thanks @Humblefish for coming in and reiterating the rampant the need for QT with disease floating in the distribution chain and treat regardless of signs.
Thanks to all and I guess I just didn’t want to believe it could be so bad. Naive on my part.

 

[Ferrell]

Thanks to all that helped me understand better not only the QT protocol but the state of animals being delivered to our hobby.
I lost the last little girl in QT so I’m at a crossroads with a blank slate. I’m going to uncycle this tank with a thorough cleaning and sanitizing and start over.
Power filter, heater, powerhead and sponge filter which is in my DT sump now, ammonia badge. Checking my fish med cabinet for supplies
Questions:
Which copper is best? Is CP better than others?
Prob get Hanna checker for that
What meds are absolute necessities? I have a number after my loosing battle with velvet.

Thanks for all your input. As much as I want more fish in tank I’m gonna step back and get it right! Patience grasshopper

 

[Humblefish]

Which copper is best? Is CP better than others?

I prefer Copper Power for all species of fish except maybe angels and puffers.

Prob get Hanna checker for that

Excellent idea; it's worth the investment to have peace of mind about your Cu level.

What meds are absolute necessities? I have a number after my loosing battle with velvet.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/#post-2445601

 

[BedrockIOMC]

I dont QT my fish after finding the best stuff ever made. If you dip them before putting them in your DT I think you will have better luck. I know others that do it like I do and they dont have the issues either. its a 2 part dip and you have the fish in each for 45 minutes each and use a air pump and air stone while they are in there and I promise you will be happy. Melev's reef on youtube and here on r2r does the same thing and he hasnt had issue with anything in his tank in years. I will give you a link here so you can get to the safety stop like I use. It is only $5 for a pack of the stuff and I try to keep a couple of packs always on hand. You should really give it a try cause I know you will like the stuff. I will also add the video that Marc did on his youtube channel about saftey stop. check it out.

 

[Ferrell]

thanks @Humblefish ive read through your articles before and didn’t remember that. Thank you and for all the info you put out for us.

@BedrockIOMC i will give it a look see

 

[Ferrell]

Update:
As I said I broke down the QT sterized everything and started anew.
Got the Copper Power, API GC and found a yellow tang thang looked good and albeit skinny and a yellow Eyed Kole at the LFS and began the process.
Since no visible signs of icy or velvet chose to go the GC route first. Thru that treatment great and eat nori and brine like hogs. Waterchange and have ramped up CP to 1.78 over 7 days and the Hanna Checker is invaluable. Dead bodies n quick and reliable. Now it’s a waiting game and then to display. 30 days... Thanks @Maritimer @Big G @ihavecrabs
@eatbreakfast @GoldeneyeRet for the input and suggestions
Thanks to all who helped and for the great articles and research by @Humblefish @HotRocks @4FordFamily for all the helpful info.