Where have all the nutrients gone?

[BrettE]

I have a newish tank (3 or 4 months old now), and recently my Nitrates and Phosphates have tanked. My Hanna checkers read 0.0 and 0.00 ppm respectively, and have for the last 6 days. 6 days ago I did a SpinTouch test at the LFS, and we measured 2 ppm Nitrates and 0.1 ppm Phosphate. I'm inclined to believe my 6 0 tests in a row from my Hanna Checker, but for no particular reason other than sample size. The water samples themselves are also quite clear after adding the reagent and doing the requisite agitation, so I find the 0 measurements believable, but I have wondered if the reagent is bad (it is not expired).

Starting 6 days ago, I began to dose NeoNitro in an attempt to bring up the Nitrates. I've been adding 10mL/day to my 150 gal water volume, which should bring it up 0.5ppm/day I believe. The bottle recommended not exceeding 0.5 ppm per day, so that's where I started.

I feed a lot of food, but I do not have a ton of fish. I run my Avast Plank for about 30 seconds 5x per day. It's filled with TDO and Reef Jerkey. I also feed Reef Roids 2x per week. I have one Foxface, a couple Clowns, a Royal Gramma, a Firefish, a a couple shrimp and about a15 snails. I have a skimmer, but the cup is removed. I have a Reef Mat, but it's bypassed for now since I know they can reduce nutrients.

Since I'm still at 0 nearly a week later, I think I need to do something different. Should I get one of the food grade Nitrate products, mix it up, and start dosing more? I have a spare dosing pump, so it would be easy enough to put on a doser, if those products don't require regular mixing anyway.

For a little bit of time it looked like my Nitrate and Phosphate were bouncing back, then they tanked again.

The only thought I have is that it started dropping after I started dosing Prazi for a suspected case of gill flukes.



What's happening?

What are my options here?

 

[Lemons]

Prazi pro is essentially a mega dose of carbon, so its likely your nutrients bottomed out due to a growth in bacteria. I just went through a round of prazi myself in my high nutrients tank and it dropped my no3 65 -> 10 and po4 0.3 -> 0.02

I wouldnt dose any nutrients until you get all that glycol and prazi out.

Or if not the prazi any apocalyptic bloom of algae? Or new rockwork added? New sterile dry rock will absorb a TON of po4

 

[BrettE]

From what I understand, Prazi breaks down in about 72 hours. Do you think it would still be causing issues?

I haven't been doing water changes, since I figured that would only drive nutrients lower. Should I start those?

I don't know about a ton of algae per se, but I do have a coating of green basically everywhere the light hits. I will add some photos tomorrow when the lights are back on. I did add a couple of small pieces, but we're talking like the size of my hand. It's Marco Rock, and I thought that particular type of rock actually tended to release a lot of Phosphate?

 

[BrettE]

Cruising through some old threads, I see other folks who also dosed Prazi and had their nutrients take a nose dive. The question now I guess is: what to do? Should I try to remove some/most of the algae? The ReefMat does a nice job with that, so it's reasonably easy. I usually just scrub it off with a toothbrush and let the filter catch it all.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

While it's not good to have zero N and P, since you just used prazi and your tank is new, your chemistry is not going to be stable for a while. Personally, I'd feed heavy and wait a week or so more before dosing anything. You might find that things are back in detectable range soon enough and you don't want to overcorrect in the other direction.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Cruising through some old threads, I see other folks who also dosed Prazi and had their nutrients take a nose dive. The question now I guess is: what to do? Should I try to remove some/most of the algae? The ReefMat does a nice job with that, so it's reasonably easy. I usually just scrub it off with a toothbrush and let the filter catch it all.

How much algae are we talking about about? Has your tank gone through the "ugly" stage yet? What herbivores do you have? You might just need to boost your cuc to manage the algae.

 

[Lemons]

From what I understand, Prazi breaks down in about 72 hours. Do you think it would still be causing issues?

I haven't been doing water changes, since I figured that would only drive nutrients lower. Should I start those?

I don't know about a ton of algae per se, but I do have a coating of green basically everywhere the light hits. I will add some photos tomorrow when the lights are back on. I did add a couple of small pieces, but we're talking like the size of my hand. It's Marco Rock, and I thought that particular type of rock actually tended to release a lot of Phosphate?

The praziquantel breaks down in 72hours but the binding agent which is ablend of glycol and other stablizing agents can last well over a week before they start breaking down. Which means theres lots of carbon available to fuel that bacteria growth

I always do a 20% WC when i do my second prazi dose. Then a day after i do a few daily 10%'s to get all that junk out, and once you get most of it out you'll notice your nutrients will start rising again.

For me i'd up my feeding to maybe twice a day. And make a freash batch of SW with some nutrients put in (not a ton but like maybe 5-10ppm nitrate and 0.02po4)

And i stress watch those numbers like a hawk

 

[BrettE]

While it's not good to have zero N and P, since you just used prazi and your tank is new, your chemistry is not going to be stable for a while. Personally, I'd feed heavy and wait a week or so more before dosing anything. You might find that things are back in detectable range soon enough and you don't want to overcorrect in the other direction.

Very true.

How much algae are we talking about about? Has your tank gone through the "ugly" stage yet? What herbivores do you have? You might just need to boost your cuc to manage the algae.

I think I'm still going through the ugly stage. I have 1 fox face (who is constantly hiding), about 3 or 4 ceriths, 3 or 4 turbos, 3 or 4 asteas, 5 or 6 trochus snails, and one little tuxedo urchin (like maybe the size of a pinball). I'll get some pics of the ugly tomorrow when the lights are on, and after I scape the week worth of crud off the glass.

 

[DrZoidburg]

Sometimes when my filter socks clogs I wont notice little mysis shrimp in my sump until a few days later. Two things I can think quickly, maybe the food has not been broken down so far, or maybe because its a new growing tank. That the growing bacteria or algae is sucking it up quickly. Or on the off chance these chemicals absorb them to be undetectable by test kits? Maybe all things combined?

 

[Widdlyscudds]

I had my nitrates bottom out recently and was dosing neo nitro and saw 0 change from day to day switched to a different test kit today and found out my regent had gone bad. Had triple checked when it hit zero and it really did go to zero but the test kit I was using after that was bunk and it took awhile for me to figure it out. I would always double check if the tests are just making zero sense. ppm of nitrates is safely at 3 but I was showing zero with the bunk test kit.

 

[BrettE]

How much algae are we talking about about? Has your tank gone through the "ugly" stage yet? What herbivores do you have? You might just need to boost your cuc to manage the algae.

I cleaned the glass this morning and took some pics. I'm planning to gently rake all the crud off the sand, and gently turkey blast the snot looking stuff on the rocks. Also planning to lightly toothbrush any really stubborn hairy spots.

First up are the two main rock structures to give you an overall view.



This crud has grown over the sand in the last week or so. What used to grown on the sand was green, now it's this purply/brownish color.


Yesterday I noticed the filamentous stuff all over too. No idea what that is, but I'm sure it's terrible.


General gross snot looking stuff on the lower rocks


Some hair, and up top we can see where my tuxedo has been munching on rocks.

 

[rennjidk]

I cleaned the glass this morning and took some pics. I'm planning to gently rake all the crud off the sand, and gently turkey blast the snot looking stuff on the rocks. Also planning to lightly toothbrush any really stubborn hairy spots.

First up are the two main rock structures to give you an overall view.



This crud has grown over the sand in the last week or so. What used to grown on the sand was green, now it's this purply/brownish color.


Yesterday I noticed the filamentous stuff all over too. No idea what that is, but I'm sure it's terrible.


General gross snot looking stuff on the lower rocks


Some hair, and up top we can see where my tuxedo has been munching on rocks.

It's likely that all of your N&P are being consumed by all of that.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I cleaned the glass this morning and took some pics. I'm planning to gently rake all the crud off the sand, and gently turkey blast the snot looking stuff on the rocks. Also planning to lightly toothbrush any really stubborn hairy spots.

First up are the two main rock structures to give you an overall view.



This crud has grown over the sand in the last week or so. What used to grown on the sand was green, now it's this purply/brownish color.


Yesterday I noticed the filamentous stuff all over too. No idea what that is, but I'm sure it's terrible.


General gross snot looking stuff on the lower rocks


Some hair, and up top we can see where my tuxedo has been munching on rocks.

You've got cyano and possibly dinos. But how long has the tank been running? Is this your first algae in the tank or did you already have several months of various blooms? Water changes, manual removal (don't blast it all over the tank), maximizing flow so there are no dead spots, and a large dose of patience is what's needed. New tanks that are started with dry rock rarely avoid the uglies... and they're called that for a reason.

 

[BrettE]

You've got cyano and possibly dinos. But how long has the tank been running? Is this your first algae in the tank or did you already have several months of various blooms? Water changes, manual removal (don't blast it all over the tank), maximizing flow so there are no dead spots, and a large dose of patience is what's needed. New tanks that are started with dry rock rarely avoid the uglies... and they're called that for a reason.

I'm fairly certain I added corals too early, but those are my main concern. If there's no Nitrate of Phosphate, they can't photosynthesize as I understand. And maybe the answer is that I can't support corals that I can't feed right now. Zoas, torch, and blast all seem to be doing really well though.

When I blast the crud off the rocks, I use the reef mat to catch it all. I'm not clear how else to remove it without it going everywhere in the water. Typically is seems to remain in suspension and to get sucked into the overflow and removed by the reef mat.

For the crud on the sand I made a little comb that I put on the end of piece of 1/2" PVC. I use that comb to get under the crud and pick it up and out of the water.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

maybe the answer is that I can't support corals that I can't feed right now.

Why can't you feed?

 

[BrettE]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding: don’t some corals make all their food by photosynthesis? And some others have mouths, so they can also consume food? For example I can feed my blasto easily: just put Reef Roids in its mouth. But a leptoseris can’t eat that way, can it? Lepto requires photosynthesis to live right? And photosynthesis requires nitrate and phosphate, right?

Or am I misunderstanding, and I could’ve been feeding my dying coral this whole time?

Thanks!

 

[a.t.t.r]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding: don’t some corals make all their food by photosynthesis? And some others have mouths, so they can also consume food? For example I can feed my blasto easily: just put Reef Roids in its mouth. But a leptoseris can’t eat that way, can it? Lepto requires photosynthesis to live right? And photosynthesis requires nitrate and phosphate, right?

Or am I misunderstanding, and I could’ve been feeding my dying coral this whole time?

Thanks!

Feeding the tank = feeding the coral indirectly.

Anyways stop adding random stuff and just ride out the ugly. Most medication has minimal impact on what you want to treat and a useful amount will kill other things. All except the worst things tend to go away with time and well fed fish.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding: don’t some corals make all their food by photosynthesis? And some others have mouths, so they can also consume food? For example I can feed my blasto easily: just put Reef Roids in its mouth. But a leptoseris can’t eat that way, can it? Lepto requires photosynthesis to live right? And photosynthesis requires nitrate and phosphate, right?

Or am I misunderstanding, and I could’ve been feeding my dying coral this whole time?

Thanks!

I believe all corals have a mouth of sorts and filter feed (or eat larger pieces of food). I honestly can't think of any that don't, but there might be. And not all corals are photosynthetic but the ones you mention are. NPS corals are a significant minority in the hobby.
*No photosynthetic coral actually has to be spot fed. As a.t.t.r said, feeding the tank - whether it's "fish food", "coral food', or adding nitrogen and phosphorus (e.g. the NeoNitrate you mentioned in the first post).

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding: don’t some corals make all their food by photosynthesis? And some others have mouths, so they can also consume food? For example I can feed my blasto easily: just put Reef Roids in its mouth. But a leptoseris can’t eat that way, can it? Lepto requires photosynthesis to live right? And photosynthesis requires nitrate and phosphate, right?

Or am I misunderstanding, and I could’ve been feeding my dying coral this whole time?

Thanks!

This may help.

A Beginners Guide To Feeding Corals

A Beginners Guide To Feeding Corals | Do Corals Require Feeding | How Do Corals Feed | What Do Corals Eat | Target & Broadcast Feeding | Best Coral Foods.

reefcoaquariums.com