Why are some people anti-waterchanges?

[FreshSaltyGuy]

So... did we define what can only be accomplished with water changes and by no other means? I believe we are stuck on dissolved organic compounds that cannot be detected nor removed or metabolized by any means other than water changes. Is that correct?

Not sure if I read this right so you are saying dissolved organic compounds etc get flush out of the ocean somehow and not filtered or eaten up through a natural process?

 

[MnFish1]

“Not static like it is within an aquarium.“

WHAT!!!!!!!
I circulate 40 volumes per hour in 75G display.

Curious - what do you think rain does?

 

[MnFish1]

Not sure if I read this right so you are saying dissolved organic compounds etc get flush out of the ocean somehow and not filtered or eaten up through a natural process?

The volume of the 'ocean' compared to 'reefs' - is basically the equivalent of water changes many many times more than anyone here does. IMHO - anyone pretending they are mimicking an ocean - is probably wrong - no matter what they are doing

 

[Anemone_Fanatic]

Why don't I do many water changes? A few reasons.

- My system is build around hardy soft corals. Therefore, not much is being taken out of the water aside from nutrients.
- I'm not sure if it's worth the stress caused to my fish.
- Most importantly, I'm lazy.

People who are a little less lazy with more intensive systems should probably do their water changes. I'm not sure about the "20% every week" doctrine, but the occasional change is a good idea. Maybe 10% a week. I'm fairly certain that my system wouldn't work well for SPS, but those aren't the corals I like and fish don't mind a little bit of dirty water, so I don't see any reason to do anything different. Besides, the softies taking in nutrients keep my nitrate levels stable, if not the lowest.

 

[MnFish1]

Fish, coral, etc etc - down to bacteria will mature to survive in the conditions that are provided. There is no right answer IMHO - and there is also no set 'do xxx percent every yyy days'. Not sure why this is a debate, and not sure anyone who is supposedly 'against water changes' actually cares what anyone else does?

 

[FreshSaltyGuy]

The volume of the 'ocean' compared to 'reefs' - is basically the equivalent of water changes many many times more than anyone here does. IMHO - anyone pretending they are mimicking an ocean - is probably wrong - no matter what they are doing

I strongly disagree. Our tanks are a much much much smaller scale of the Ocean. We just need to dial in what that should look like.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Please elaborate, I have just been dabbling at considering it and definitely dont want to invest in something not worthy. If you prefer not to do it here, DM will be just fine. It doesn't have to be a ton of info either, readers digest version will work for me.

I’m not objecting to the idea of the method per se, but there are several issues. In the context of this thread about water changes, even if the concept of supplying trace elements is solved, that still leaves other reasons for water changes that I have indicated in this thread.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So... did we define what can only be accomplished with water changes and by no other means? I believe we are stuck on dissolved organic compounds that cannot be detected nor removed or metabolized by any means other than water changes. Is that correct?

Exporting accumulating ions can be hard to do without water changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not sure if I read this right so you are saying dissolved organic compounds etc get flush out of the ocean somehow and not filtered or eaten up through a natural process?

Some accumulate for hundreds or thousands of years. Others are broken down by dozens of processes, and all are diluted into a large volume of water.

 

[FishTruck]

Not sure if I read this right so you are saying dissolved organic compounds etc get flush out of the ocean somehow and not filtered or eaten up through a natural process?

Right! What cannot be flushed or filtered or eaten up?? Or.. destroyed by Ozone or UV while we are at it??

I am not saying anything about the Ocean though - I find it more mysterious the more I learn.

Other than mystery DOCs... Randy says accumulated ions. This is a good answer. Something to ponder as I decide how many bags of salt I am going to buy in 2024. After reading through this immortal thread... I think I am going to reduce my salt purchases by 9%

 

[Raul-7]

Some accumulate for hundreds or thousands of years. Others are broken down by dozens of processes, and all are diluted into a large volume of water.

Exactly! People thinking their filtration at home mimics the ocean could not be further from the truth.

Moreover, they under estimate the vast amounts of water the oceans hold compared to their 100 gallon at home.

 

[FreshSaltyGuy]

Don't tell anyone but I haven't done a water change on a 30 gallon reef tank since May/June 2023. I don't plan on doing one as long as EVERYTHING looks healthy. I think these pics of my 7 month old corals tell the story. I got them all as frags and they have since triple and quadrupled in size and have grow to the point where I'm giving things away until my 220 gal tank is ready. This tank is NOT dosed, no water changes, has no skimmer....nothing other than a tiny 4 gallon fuge , lots of rock and live sand and a **** load of CUC. I also hardly ever clean the glass...why because my CUC takes care of that.

Exactly! People thinking their filtration at home mimics the ocean could not be further from the truth.

Moreover, they under estimate the vast amounts of water the oceans hold compared to their 100 gallon at home.

Raul, please stop man. Don't mean to be rude but of course we don't have the oceans amount of water. We and a tiny fraction and we base our filtration and ability to work properly for the size tank. Perfect example on 1 thing. If you have a 30 gallon tank you should have 30-50 CUC. If you have a 200 gallon tank then you should have 200-300 CUC. It's all relative to size man.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I may be mis-reading your post because it is a tiny bit confusing, so I will apologize upfront if that is the case.

If your friend is doing 100% water changes since day one on a fishbowl/vase/other unfiltered tank, then yes I suppose you are correct there. But for most of us here with sumps, filters, live rock, etc, you absolutely can do a 100% (or close to it) water change, as long as you match your parameters. The water itself doesn't contain any beneficial denitrifying bacteria. That is all on surfaces... rock, plumbing, sand, etc.

Thank you, I was biting my tongue

 

[CascadianExotics]

Saying I'm against water changes would be a misnomer. Just sick of them....at least the time consuming ones.

As a cichlid hobbyist, I have to perform massive (50-80%) weekly changes on some pretty large tanks just to maintain stability. I spend at least 2 or 3 hours a week just changing the water...and that's not factoring in any other maintenance that needs done. That level of work feels more like a weekend job after a while than a hobby.

The fact that I could work towards creating a system that all but eliminates those changes AND maintains stability is admittedly quite intriguing! And if I have to change only 10-25% on a smaller setup, then I'm good with that. Getting back to having fun with my hobby is the primary driver with my decision to get into Reefing.

 

[zheka757]

All this reading makes my head spin!
So should I do water changes or not?

 

[michealprater]

All this reading makes my head spin!
So should I do water changes or not?

Up to you lol. These types of debates are endless… but there is stuff to be learned if you know who to read.

 

[FreshSaltyGuy]

All this reading makes my head spin!
So should I do water changes or not?

Only when you see the tank is unhealthy/needs it. Don't bother the ecosystem it's creating.

 

[FreshSaltyGuy]

Some accumulate for hundreds or thousands of years. Others are broken down by dozens of processes, and all are diluted into a large volume of water.

So it's relative to model size right?

 

[DCR]

You are underestimating the significance of the size and volume of the oceans. If you think you want to mimic it, you likely need an Olympic pool sized aquarium and limit yourself to one small goby. You will never have the dilution and export mechanisms present in the ocean.

 

[rtparty]

All this reading makes my head spin!
So should I do water changes or not?

Yes. It’s that simple. There is zero reason to overthink this topic