Why do some thread participants find it necessary to put others on blast?

[Antaguana]

I think this thread relates to that point:

Reefers may over-rely on personal experience to accept or reject truth

OK, I know that's a provocative title, but hear me out. From many, many discussions I have had with reefers over the past 25 years, it is clear to me that many folks easily accept ideas that mesh with their experience, and strongly reject those that do not. Unfortunately, this reliance on...

www.reef2reef.com

The very expert I was thinking of, complete with sources as always.

Am I correct in my thinking that you (and others like you) find it frustrating having to answer the same questions and refute the same misinformation year after year?

 

[tzabor10]

I want to join your efforts and pledge NOT to mention QT, Kalkwasser, cycling or bristleworm Identification.

 

[Antaguana]

FWIW, I personally HAVE NEVER, EVER, slammed someone for not having any particular background. I do frequently correct statements and assertions that are simply incorrect.

Page 3 of "Reefers may over-rely on personal experience to accept or reject truth" thread.

I feel this is a good stance.
Keep the OP here happy by not slamming and shaming people trying to help.
But also keep people like me happy by making sure the corrections are given.

I guess the hard bit it when its not "simply" incorrect, but incorrect in some quite complex way that is hard to explain to a layperson who confuses "their own experience" with "their own truth"

 

[Dom]

As you mentioned about unfollowing threads. This is a slippery slope that can quickly turn into the Atlas Shrugged model of knowledge and common sense.

I agree, but, sometimes the toxicity is too much.

 

[ca1ore]

This seems like SOP for any and all online forums. It’s been many decades since I was a novice in this hobby (when there was no online), but there are certainly other topics that I have engaged with online in which I still was a novice. I would venture a guess that the reason for over complication and or rudeness (hardly limited to the experts btw) is not some fanciful insecurity from a lifetime of work without validation LOL. I certainly engage far less here than I used to, partly because I’m tired of answering the same old questions over an over again (search is your friend - does that make me rude) and partly because I have grown weary of online. My suggestion always is to identify a handful of folks whose knowledge seem genuine and advice sensible - listen to them.

 

[BeanAnimal]

But every once in a while, we get an expert who insists on delivering answers that are extremely complex to most of us and is generally useless.

But if that isn't enough, they find that a necessary part of their post must include labeling other participants in the conversation in an rude and impolite way.

Why is that?

Because you are dealing with real people from the real world, and the real world is full of vastly different opinions, personalities and expertises. Do here, as you would there.. ignore those who you don't care for.

 

[Dom]

Because you are dealing with real people from the real world, and the real world is full of vastly different opinions, personalities and expertises. Do here, as you would there.. ignore those who you don't care for.

All true.

I withdraw from threads that become more about flaming and less about information.

But the insecurity of people who make such responses can't be dismissed.

 

[brandon429]

Because typical post fare is boring, slow, and takes years to evolve practices compared to a little fire motivation.

The things you can get done with some primary motivation are interesting compared to just handholding the public and assessing their feelings, you can change the way thousands of people do this hobby with the right ability to ‘motivate’

The distinction comes down to what’s in it for the motivator?

A quick check of anyones post history shows intent

Some are in it for clicks and ad rev

Some are in it because they’re new and think some early successes at home means they’re able to influence others


And some are just in it to hone science. Most just want to sit back and never be challenged, so they feel ok, but that’s not everyone.

To some, passivity is the scourge.

 

[Slocke]

There are two things that really annoy me when it comes to “experts” and “novices” on forums. One from each side.

As an expert on one very specific subject I find it very annoying when a lot of people who don’t know what they are talking about pretends they are experts and the question asker doesn’t know who the expert is. The amount of times a person with one wrasse will somehow think they now know everything about wrasse is crazy. It can be hard to not call out those people when I’m in a bad mood.

On the other side I find it even more annoying when a person who is an expert in one subject then pretends to be an expert in another and because they are a known expert their BS gets believed over actual experts. This is especially bad in the fish medic forum where we have one true expert but sometimes pretenders “prescribe” medications or procedures that could make the fish worse.


Saying all this I must admit I have been the annoyance in both situations a bunch of times myself.

 

[BeanAnimal]

But the insecurity of people who make such responses can't be dismissed.

People behave differently for different reasons, it is not always insecurity. Personalities are just different. Discerning non-verbal (written) tone and intentions, etc. makes things even more challenging.

For every "jerk" or "overbearing" expert, there is an "overly sensitive person" or "victim" looking for sympathy. For every "helpful" person there is a "troll". It is just a mix of the real world, teachers pets, class clowns, bullies, valedictorians and drop outs, kind souls and smart-alecks.

There is a little bit of everything, but the nicety is that there is a wealth of information here and you can pick and choose who to engage with and who not to. Nobody is going to bloody your nose or steal your lunch money. The sooner you realize that they are all just random people at the other end of keyboard, the sooner you will realize that it doesn't matter what any of them say. YOU get to choose the select few of all of these random people that YOU want to befriend or listen to.

 

[Antaguana]

That doesn't make it any easier to work out who knows what they are talking about and is telling the truth.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That doesn't make it any easier to work out who knows what they are talking about and is telling the truth.

That is not easy here, or anywhere from work to the mechanic to the family reunion.

 

[Antaguana]

Shame

 

[Dom]

People behave differently for different reasons, it is not always insecurity. Personalities are just different. Discerning non-verbal (written) tone and intentions, etc. makes things even more challenging.

For every "jerk" or "overbearing" expert, there is an "overly sensitive person" or "victim" looking for sympathy. For every "helpful" person there is a "troll". It is just a mix of the real world, teachers pets, class clowns, bullies, valedictorians and drop outs, kind souls and smart-alecks.

There is a little bit of everything, but the nicety is that there is a wealth of information here and you can pick and choose who to engage with and who not to. Nobody is going to bloody your nose or steal your lunch money. The sooner you realize that they are all just random people at the other end of keyboard, the sooner you will realize that it doesn't matter what any of them say. YOU get to choose the select few of all of these random people that YOU want to befriend or listen to.

Well said.

 

[Dom]

Because typical post fare is boring, slow, and takes years to evolve practices compared to a little fire motivation.

The things you can get done with some primary motivation are interesting compared to just handholding the public and assessing their feelings, you can change the way thousands of people do this hobby with the right ability to ‘motivate’

Brandon, while what you say may be true, it is hardly a good reason for a lack of civility.

 

[Reefer Matt]

My take on it is that some experts simply lack universal communication skills. Don’t we all sometimes! Lol. While well intentioned, they may converse on a topic in a way that only they can understand. That may not always translate into a relatable experience for the Reefer asking a question. But by asking followup questions, the Reefer may be able to get past any assumptions that the expert was just being rude, and start to understand their personality and intent.

 

[Dom]

My take on it is that some experts simply lack universal communication skills. Don’t we all sometimes! Lol. While well intentioned, they may converse on a topic in a way that only they can understand. That may not always translate into a relatable experience for the Reefer asking a question. But by asking followup questions, the Reefer may be able to get past any assumptions that the expert was just being rude, and start to understand their personality and intent.

Yes, we've all encountered people in our daily lives who are lacking in communication skills.

And yes, I too have tripped over my own words. But for some people here, it is habitual; they never have anything to add without flaming the OP in some way.

Those people are blocked.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Yes, we've all encountered people in our daily lives who are lacking in communication skills.

And yes, I too have tripped over my own words. But for some people here, it is habitual; then never have anything to add without flaming the OP in some way.

Those people are blocked.

There are community guidelines that everyone here are required to follow. I can assure you that flaming is not tolerated, and is dealt with when brought up to the staff. If it happens to anyone, report the person accordingly, regardless of their position here.

 

[Tavero]

We are all here with the common interest of keeping reef tanks. And when you have as many people with the same interest that we have here on R2R, you will get people of all skill levels.

Most people come here to learn, but there are a small percentage of expert participants who are in the position to share what they have learned, which I feel is what makes R2R so popular.

I've had some wonderful interactions with some of the experts here. I maintain private conversations with some of them as they have shown an interest in mentoring. This is a great resource and one that I try not to dip in to too often.

But every once in a while, we get an expert who insists on delivering answers that are extremely complex to most of us and is generally useless.

But if that isn't enough, they find that a necessary part of their post must include labeling other participants in the conversation in an rude and impolite way.

Why is that?

I believe it is insecurity from a lifetime of work in their field without any validation. So they come here to feel superior and boost their ego, because they don't get that validation at home or work.

Frankly, most people here have children at home and are not interested raising more of them here on R2R.

So I would ask that those individuals provide the help in a way that is useful others, and not just useful to you as a vehicle to validate who you are.

Respectfully,
Dom.

Maybe it's because I'm German and Germans are considered rude by default, but when reading through the posts where people were giving wrong and dangerous advice repeatedly, even the impatient commenters that were giving rude answers to put them in place, were still pretty lenient in my opinion.

If someone posted a tank build of a 13g with two clowns or a 75g with a tang in my old german forum, they were done for. In the best cases they were never ever replied to anymore, but usually this was leading to the general opinion and comments of: f* off, with your fish abuse. As*hole.

This elitism was what finally lead me to leaving and joining reef2reef and I actually was surprised how patient most member are with even the worst cases of fish abuse and misinformation. Still, everyones patience is running out by some point. I mean we are still taking about living animals here.

 

[Dom]

There are community guidelines that everyone here are required to follow. I can assure you that flaming is not tolerated, and is dealt with when brought up to the staff. If it happens to anyone, report the person accordingly, regardless of their position here.

And that is what I find so puzzling; R2R administration goes through great lengths to makes us aware of those guidelines.

And when the OP gets blasted in a response, I feel it is a display of an attitude that they are above the rules.