Why folks don’t like adding nutrients

[sixty_reefer]

Help me understand, why do folks don’t like adding nutrients to a enclosed system wend in most times sources of Carbon, Nitrogen and phosphorus can be the quickest ways to fix nutrient issues in a system, not to mention that can save a tone of €€€ in medias and avoid nuisances.

is it mainly because there’s a lack of literature on the understanding of enclosed systems nutrition or mainly just a personal choice because the subject is not well understood for most.

another question I have is why some folks are so proactive at using hidden nutrients in some products and then so against at using nutrients that are clearly explicit.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Help me understand, why do folks don’t like adding nutrients to a enclosed system wend in most times sources of Carbon, Nitrogen and phosphorus can be the quickest ways to fix nutrient issues in a system, not to mention that can save a tone of €€€ in medias and avoid nuisances.

is it mainly because there’s a lack of literature on the understanding of enclosed systems nutrition or mainly just a personal choice because the subject is not well understood for most.

another question I have is why some folks are so proactive at using hidden nutrients in some products and then so against at using nutrients that are clearly explicit.

Do you mean like "feeding more" because nitrates and phosphates are low.

How about this one " I'm feeding x ,x ,x 3 times a day, and my N&P are still zero"

Or this one " I'm adding AB+ everyday but my N&P are still 0"

 

[SamsReef]

Help me understand, why do folks don’t like adding nutrients to a enclosed system wend in most times sources of Carbon, Nitrogen and phosphorus can be the quickest ways to fix nutrient issues in a system, not to mention that can save a tone of €€€ in medias and avoid nuisances.

is it mainly because there’s a lack of literature on the understanding of enclosed systems nutrition or mainly just a personal choice because the subject is not well understood for most.

another question I have is why some folks are so proactive at using hidden nutrients in some products and then so against at using nutrients that are clearly explicit.

The approach has definitely evolved in last 5 yrs. Chasing 0 nitrate and phosphate is no longer the goal. A large number of mature reef tanks gets dosed with nitrate to maintain 5-10 ppm.
Just look at how many nitrate supplements are out in the market these days. They have all popped up in last 5 yrs.

Sam

 

[Dburr1014]

The approach has definitely evolved in last 5 yrs. Chasing 0 nitrate and phosphate is no longer the goal. A large number of mature reef tanks gets dosed with nitrate to maintain 5-10 ppm.
Just look at how many nitrate supplements are out in the market these days. They have all popped up in last 5 yrs.

Sam

+1
There was a day when if you tested any po4, there was a problem.
I myself have chronic no3 deficiency and dose to keep it north of 0.

 

[Mark Novack]

How do I know if I need PO4/NO3 in my aquarium? Is there a sign to look for?

I was shocked to see 0/0 nitrate/phosphates after a month of heavy feeding and AB+ daily. However, my urchin was not too fluffy, the rocks were getting fluffy and polyp extension diminished so I did two large water changes. Its still 0/0 but looking pretty good. I have gone back to normal feeding and no more AB+ for now. I'll see in a month or so what difference that makes.

 

[Dburr1014]

How do I know if I need PO4/NO3 in my aquarium? Is there a sign to look for?

I was shocked to see 0/0 nitrate/phosphates after a month of heavy feeding and AB+ daily. However, my urchin was not too fluffy, the rocks were getting fluffy and polyp extension diminished so I did two large water changes. Its still 0/0 but looking pretty good. I have gone back to normal feeding and no more AB+ for now. I'll see in a month or so what difference that makes.

Have you tested for it? 0/0 a lots of times equals dinos. Not always cuz they are present, just being used right up.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Do you mean like "feeding more" because nitrates and phosphates are low.

How about this one " I'm feeding x ,x ,x 3 times a day, and my N&P are still zero"

Or this one " I'm adding AB+ everyday but my N&P are still 0"

That’s a good example, folks will prefer to trow a crazy amount of food into a system, instead of dosing calcium nitrate because is a “chemical” although they won’t have any issues dosing AB+ that in a way are nutrient in a chemical form also.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The approach has definitely evolved in last 5 yrs. Chasing 0 nitrate and phosphate is no longer the goal. A large number of mature reef tanks gets dosed with nitrate to maintain 5-10 ppm.
Just look at how many nitrate supplements are out in the market these days. They have all popped up in last 5 yrs.

Sam

Certainly it helps the hobby greatly and in my view a rapid form to adjust the desired nutrient. I’m just wondering why some folks are still against it.

 

[sixty_reefer]

How do I know if I need PO4/NO3 in my aquarium? Is there a sign to look for?

I was shocked to see 0/0 nitrate/phosphates after a month of heavy feeding and AB+ daily. However, my urchin was not too fluffy, the rocks were getting fluffy and polyp extension diminished so I did two large water changes. Its still 0/0 but looking pretty good. I have gone back to normal feeding and no more AB+ for now. I'll see in a month or so what difference that makes.

I’ve seen many using ab+ without realising that it’s mainly a source of organic carbon and some nitrogen similar to np bacto-balance and the main effect is to reduce inorganic nutrient by increasing bacterial numbers in a system.

 

[Mark Novack]

Ah ha. Nope. Did not know that. I had not planned on carbon dosing. I wanted to grow chaeto in a reactor. Carbon dosing would be counter productive to growing chaeto, no?

 

[Dburr1014]

Ah ha. Nope. Did not know that. I had not planned on carbon dosing. I wanted to grow chaeto in a reactor. Carbon dosing would be counter productive to growing chaeto, no?

Carbon dosing would lower nutrients as would cheato.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Ah ha. Nope. Did not know that. I had not planned on carbon dosing. I wanted to grow chaeto in a reactor. Carbon dosing would be counter productive to growing chaeto, no?

They have different effects, carbon dosing reduces inorganic nutrient wile making organic nutrients more available for coral and algae and algae will reduce both inorganic (including miners) and organic nutrients.
In a young system with not many corals a combination of both methods could minimise excess organic that can be utilised by nuisance algae and in a more mature system with larger colonies may not need the addition of algae to keep organic nutrients in check.
One way to look at it is that the inorganic nutrients main function is to keep your heterotrophic bacteria population healthy and oxidise ammonia fast and the organic nutrients will aid rna and dna building on coral, algaes (good and bad) and other organisms in the system.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Speaking of nitrates....

I dosed my tank up to 5ppm last night using ESV (calcium) nitrate, which is currently my go-to nitrate supplement.

Has anyone used the new NeoNitro 5X yet? I'm curious if it is really 5X as strong as the original.

If so, that would make it stronger than ESV, and therefore, probably cheaper than the ESV that I'm using now.

I couldn't find any official dosage instructions for the new 5X version, but if it's really 5X the original, then that would be stronger than ESV.

ESV seems to be twice as concentrated as NeoNitro, but if NeoNitro 5X is really 5 times more concentrated, then it's going to be more than twice as concentrated as ESV now.

ESV = 1ml raises 20G of water 1ppm.
NeoNitro = 1ml raises 1G of water 5ppm.

So to dose a 40G tank up to 5 ppm:
it would take 10ml of ESV, or 20ml of NeoNitro. (ESV is twice as strong)

if NeoNitro 5X is really 5 times as strong as regular NeoNitro, then it would only take 4ml of NeoNitro 5X. Making it 2.5 times stronger than ESV.

I buy the 1L/32oz size bottle of ESV nitrate for $15.
Looks like the NeoNitro 5X is around $30. so it might be a little cheaper than the ESV, if its 2.5 times as strong, but only twice the cost.... will need to confirm that.

Can't seem to find any vendors that have the 5X version in stock yet though. Looks like it can be ordered directly from brightwell/continuum though. I might have to see if my LFS can add a bottle to their next order for me.

There is also a NeoPhos 5X now too.

 

[KStatefan]

I think some users might be scared of using chemicals the risk of over dosing could be perceived as greater with chemicals.

 

[DavidinGA]

Because...if a system is properly set up, adding additional direct supplements (such as those you mentioned, like carbon dosing or n03 or p04) should never be necessary and can often become a more precarious balancing act to maintain long-term.

Help me understand, why do folks don’t like adding nutrients to a enclosed system wend in most times sources of Carbon, Nitrogen and phosphorus can be the quickest ways to fix nutrient issues in a system, not to mention that can save a tone of €€€ in medias and avoid nuisances.

is it mainly because there’s a lack of literature on the understanding of enclosed systems nutrition or mainly just a personal choice because the subject is not well understood for most.

another question I have is why some folks are so proactive at using hidden nutrients in some products and then so against at using nutrients that are clearly explicit.

 

[DavidinGA]

Also, the more one ventures into dosing this additive and that additive the more likely it will be that a person will inadvertently create/cause a new problem.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I think some users might be scared of using chemicals the risk of over dosing could be perceived as greater with chemicals.

This is part of what I would like to understand, most nutrients are not so different from dosing two part for example and I believe the risks are similar

 

[Kathy Floyd]

is it mainly because there’s a lack of literature on the understanding of enclosed systems nutrition or mainly just a personal choice because the subject is not well understood for most. - yes

I always thought let it do what it is going to do. I agree also with KStatefan on scared to overdose. I have been adding Magnesium and it still is low. Now I am wondering if I am testing wrong. I have no idea why my mag level is still low.

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[sixty_reefer]

Because...if a system is properly set up, adding additional direct supplements (such as those you mentioned, like carbon dosing or n03 or p04) should never be necessary and can often become a more precarious balancing act to maintain long-term.

For the most part I agree with you although our hobby has changed a lot in the past decade and there is many forms of organic carbon (carbon dosing) hidden in bacteria products, energy and fuel that lower nutrients without the folks using it being aware of it.
Would you not agree that we need to be aware of what we are adding to a system and the possible outcomes of those actions and once the mistake is made being able to rectify it with elements that we know the outcome ex. Calcium nitrate and sodium nitrate

 

[Spare time]

I’ve seen many using ab+ without realising that it’s mainly a source of organic carbon and some nitrogen similar to np bacto-balance and the main effect is to reduce inorganic nutrient by increasing bacterial numbers in a system.

Ab+ isn't mainly a source of organic carbon. Its primarily a source of nitrogen.