Why is 'taking it slow' the best way to set up a reef tank?

[FishyFishFish]

There is a lot here that makes a huge amount of sense to me, but to play devils advocate I will make a couple of points.

If I set up my tank with dry rock and used bottle bacteria and an ammonia source for the initial bacteria cycle, completed that cycle and left it for 2 years, would I have all of the bacteria and micro fauna needed for a stable system?

If I add one coral that brings with it some micro-organisms would that have enough diversity to accomplish this same task of full harmony? Would adding several corals (particularly from different sources) be better or worse to bring in the good hitchhikers? Would having fish to feed and poop be better or worse?

I have had a reef tank before (several years ago) and I seem to remember that ULNS was a big thing back then, but not really any more. However, it appears (maybe incorrectly) that many people are now struggling with not having enough nutrients. Is that because their new (dry rock) tanks are too ‘clean’. I can’t remember reading large numbers of people dosing nitrates or phosphates before.

Many of the problems mentioned in this thread aren’t really about the tank, but more about the reefer. For example, incorrect stocking could occur even if you only put one thing in.

I am probably going a bit faster than conventional wisdom would suggest is sensible, and I have already come across a couple of issues. I don’t think these issues are directly related to how quickly the tank was set up (I think it was caused by poor quality LFS water in my QT) but the resolution to try to save the 1 affected fish and coral has taken a disproportionate amount of my time, so I can see how a bigger problem would be troublesome.

There is a lot I don’t know and I’m guessing that is where a lot of the differences in my thought process are. The timeline for the buildup of life in the aquarium is my unknown. Maybe going too quick is not a great idea, but maybe going too slow isn’t always best either. However, maybe slower allows the reefer a chance to recover from mistakes or unknowns.

There is one final variable here, that has been mentioned on this thread, and that is the individual reefer. Some of the threads I have seen here are a bit surprising, with some people having seen a pretty fish at the LFS, bought a complete setup that day they they have filled with conditioned tap water and a cup of salt and are away; other threads have people asking in-depth questions about micro-organisms before they have even decided what tank they want. Maybe speed of progress is based a large amount on the research, knowledge level and prior preparation of the reefer as much as (or even more) than the build up of life in the aquarium.

 

[dtruitt]

Taking it slow is important because most of us use many different forms of filtration and supplementation.

The nitrogen cycle may be complete within a day if you use ample live rock and feed sensibly, and you may have a decent stock of chitons, brittle stars, copepods, amphipods, and other good hitch hikers from live rock, but it's hard to gauge how much to feed, how wet to skim, which socks to use, which fuge light to run, how much gfo, how much carbon, etc. Without slowly changing one thing at a time, having some ugly moments, and bringing things back in spec.

 

[Paul B]

If I set up my tank with dry rock and used bottle bacteria and an ammonia source for the initial bacteria cycle, completed that cycle and left it for 2 years, would I have all of the bacteria and micro fauna needed for a stable system?

I would say, probably not. The bacteria in a bottle has never been in the sea, it was grown in a lab with maybe the correct bacteria for the nitrification process but nothing else.
A normal, natural tank has many types of bacteria and viruses that you will not find in a bottle and ammonia is not the only thing a tank needs.

Live rock will add algae and chemicals from algae that we have not even began to know if are needed or not. Real seawater, or real rock has every chemical on Earth in it.

ASW along with dry rock, bottled bacteria and ammonia does not and will "probably" not make a stable system in 2 years. It could, but real live rock with real bacteria and real fish wastes is a lot easier and much more natural and natural is always better. IMO of course.

 

[Jon's Reef]

There is a lot I don’t know and I’m guessing that is where a lot of the differences in my thought process are. The timeline for the buildup of life in the aquarium is my unknown. Maybe going too quick is not a great idea, but maybe going too slow isn’t always best either. However, maybe slower allows the reefer a chance to recover from mistakes or unknowns.

It's not about slow or fast, it's about building up an ecosystem where a change to one thing causes a ripple across everything else. And this is not a single event, once it has been disturbed, values will fluctuate up and down until finally coming to equilibrium.

A classic example is algae. High nutrients, it grows. The algae is consuming the nutrients, nutrients drop. Algae dies because of low nutrients. This causes high nutrients which starts algae growth again. This cycle continues, but dampens over time as long as you have corrected the origin of the high nutrients. Similar things happen with bacteria, pods, CUC, corals, etc...

This multitude of processes (--> Biological diversity) acts to dampen future parameter oscillations allowing the system to re-equilibrate faster. But in the beginning it is important to establish that strong foundation. It is a matter of watching the tank, see if things look good. That is where the "reefer" comes into it. With time, you get to know what "good" looks like and what big problems look like.

 

[SPR1968]

You don’t have to set up a system and ‘go slow’, you can do it very quickly but only if you know what your doing. The use of bottled bacteria these days means you can cycle a tank immediately so it’s ready to go.

I think ‘go slow’ is general advice for the masses, especially new reefers, and generally comes from the scenario of ‘I read it so I’ll just repeat it’

This tank (530g) was set up with 30 fish added on day 1. It’s now 12 months old, so you can do it very quickly providing you have all systems in place and monitor water quality and have an idea what your doing Im not recommending everyone go and try this, but it can easily be achieved

@FishyFishFish I think your comment below about sums it up perfectly

“Maybe speed of progress is based a large amount on the research, knowledge level and prior preparation of the reefer as much as (or even more) than the build up of life in the aquarium”

 

[WVNed]

It really isn't about time. It is about a sequence of events, knowing when they happen and what to do next.
Bumping things in the right direction if necessary.
Going slow is just using the default longest time they may take without any understanding.

 

[Freenow54]

Like you I am just starting. I have an article given to me by my store owner. It is quite simple to understand. I am using a sump
1} First tank all set up with rock, and Algae { go to BRS site to see the video they go or goggle it. called 13 biggest mistakes with start up.
2} NO LIGHTS NO SKIMMER
3 Get API saltwater test kit. It comes with everything you need to begin and beyond. Tests for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and PH. This was recommended by Author and is great. Get some syringes
All sorts off calculators to tell you how much Ammonia you will need. I used 35ml for 120 gallons US. You want to get it just under 5ppm. I let it cycle then added 32oz of bacteria booster to kick start it. This depends on the rock you used. I went cultured, From what I read there is too much risk using Live. Again BRS does a video on that. There are 3 types.
4} let it run for a few days then start testing and adding more ammonia , test for Nitrites as well. I had to add another 15ml of ammonia today 3 days later. My readings were 0.5ppm ammonia, 2.0ppm Nitrite, and maybe hard to read 0.5 Nitrate.
5) When you start seeing Nitrite back off on the ammonia he says half. It should spike at some point 14 to 20 days. You should then see Nitrite drop rapidly, and Nitrates going up. Close attention now to any ammonia adding. He says 1/4 of initial amount. When ammonia and nitrites read zero the cycle is complete Takes up to 45 days. Then a large water change is necessary. When done add fish one at a time if not you still need to add ammonia to feed the bacteria. I bought a 20 gallon quarantine tank for mine. Including a UV light. I will take pictures of the article and post it later

 

[FishyFishFish]

The only part of that I would question is only adding one fish, and this is part of my overall go-slow question.

In your example you have a 120 gal tank. Presumably dosing up to 2ppm ammonia in a 120 gal tank is way more than would be produced by 1 fish. Why not add a few fish once the nitrogen cycle is complete? In fact, would that not be better than just adding one? Why would you need/want to dose ammonia after adding fish (unless doing it for a specific advanced reason)?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

this hobby is literally just throwing handfuls of cash at a glass box with water in it, hundreds of dollars at a time. You go fast if you want, you make the mistakes we made, and in a year you will be telling newbies to take it slow. Its advise based on experience of frustration and huge expense.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Why not add a few fish once the nitrogen cycle is complete?

It's not about just the ammonia, but what about the Nitrate? How will it be exported? Same with phosphate.

Fish stocking is also about ensuring the proper food supply, aggression stock sequence and overall hardiness. Some fish can take a parameter swing better than others. Often times it is better to add multiple fish (2-3) at once to spread the bullying.

Just take some time to enjoy each thing you add.

 

[Freenow54]

Like you I am just starting. I have an article given to me by my store owner. It is quite simple to understand. I am using a sump
1} First tank all set up with rock, and Algae { go to BRS site to see the video they go or goggle it. called 13 biggest mistakes with start up.
2} NO LIGHTS NO SKIMMER
3 Get API saltwater test kit. It comes with everything you need to begin and beyond. Tests for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and PH. This was recommended by Author and is great. Get some syringes
All sorts off calculators to tell you how much Ammonia you will need. I used 35ml for 120 gallons US. You want to get it just under 5ppm. I let it cycle then added 32oz of bacteria booster to kick start it. This depends on the rock you used. I went cultured, From what I read there is too much risk using Live. Again BRS does a video on that. There are 3 types.
4} let it run for a few days then start testing and adding more ammonia , test for Nitrites as well. I had to add another 15ml of ammonia today 3 days later. My readings were 0.5ppm ammonia, 2.0ppm Nitrite, and maybe hard to read 0.5 Nitrate.
5) When you start seeing Nitrite back off on the amonia he says half. It should spike at some point 14 to 20 days. You should then see Nitrite drop rapidly, and Nitrates going up. Close attention now to any amonia adding. He says 1/4 of initial amount.

There is a lot here that makes a huge amount of sense to me, but to play devils advocate I will make a couple of points.

If I set up my tank with dry rock and used bottle bacteria and an ammonia source for the initial bacteria cycle, completed that cycle and left it for 2 years, would I have all of the bacteria and micro fauna needed for a stable system?

If I add one coral that brings with it some micro-organisms would that have enough diversity to accomplish this same task of full harmony? Would adding several corals (particularly from different sources) be better or worse to bring in the good hitchhikers? Would having fish to feed and poop be better or worse?

I have had a reef tank before (several years ago) and I seem to remember that ULNS was a big thing back then, but not really any more. However, it appears (maybe incorrectly) that many people are now struggling with not having enough nutrients. Is that because their new (dry rock) tanks are too ‘clean’. I can’t remember reading large numbers of people dosing nitrates or phosphates before.

Many of the problems mentioned in this thread aren’t really about the tank, but more about the reefer. For example, incorrect stocking could occur even if you only put one thing in.

I am probably going a bit faster than conventional wisdom would suggest is sensible, and I have already come across a couple of issues. I don’t think these issues are directly related to how quickly the tank was set up (I think it was caused by poor quality LFS water in my QT) but the resolution to try to save the 1 affected fish and coral has taken a disproportionate amount of my time, so I can see how a bigger problem would be troublesome.

There is a lot I don’t know and I’m guessing that is where a lot of the differences in my thought process are. The timeline for the buildup of life in the aquarium is my unknown. Maybe going too quick is not a great idea, but maybe going too slow isn’t always best either. However, maybe slower allows the reefer a chance to recover from mistakes or unknowns.

There is one final variable here, that has been mentioned on this thread, and that is the individual reefer. Some of the threads I have seen here are a bit surprising, with some people having seen a pretty fish at the LFS, bought a complete setup that day they they have filled with conditioned tap water and a cup of salt and are away; other threads have people asking in-depth questions about micro-organisms before they have even decided what tank they want. Maybe speed of progress is based a large amount on the research, knowledge level and prior preparation of the reefer as much as (or even more) than the build up of life in the aquarium.

You cannot let it sit with no fish. You would have to keep feeding the bacteria to keep it alive fish or ammonia or organic material eg food

 

[Freenow54]

Article

 

[FishyFishFish]

Ah, I mis-interpreted the post, I read it as 'you need to add ammonia if you are adding one fish at a time', instead of 'you need to add ammonia if you aren't adding any fish'

 

[Gup]

When I set up a new tank I don’t take it slow by any means. I do feel though that as the tank size increases things should definitely be taken a little slower to allow for bacteria to bloom and the overall biosphere to acclimate. The taking it slow notion comes from those not wanting to “shock” their system which is totally valid. Can’t be adding a fish every other day for two weeks. Usually I let the tank sit a few days with rock and sand, then I’ll put in my first fish or two. After a week or two I’ll throw in a zoa frag to see how it does. After that I’ll usually add a fish every couple of weeks until I’m stocked. Corals I usually wait and add a tester piece from each classification before I go wild

I was somewhat surprised that you never mentioned the most basic water parameters checks as you are adding stock. Say ammonia created from adding stock using an indiscriminate time frame. I'm assuming you did, just failed to mention that point.

 

[MONTANTK]

I was somewhat surprised that you never mentioned the most basic water parameters checks as you are adding stock. Say ammonia created from adding stock using an indiscriminate time frame. I'm assuming you did, just failed to mention that point.

Good point! I think it is kind of implied when talking about bacteria but definitely worth mentioning. To be quite honest, I don’t check ammonia and nitrite when setting up a new tank and even nitrate I check sparingly. This is only because I use the real reef brand live rock which has never given me more then a slight nitrite spike. If I was using totally dry base rock or even stuff from the ocean I would definitely monitor those basic parameters

 

[terraincognita]

TLDR all responses.

the #1 reason to take it slow in SW is the LEARNING CURVE IS HUGE.

It's more about Chemistry than the actual gosh dang inhabitants.

FW is so basic in comparison. It's like kindergarten vs college.

 

[terraincognita]

Once you've been doing it for years, you can set up same day or next day tanks like some Vets. But that's only after you really, really understand it.

I guess if you had genius level IQ and studied enough prior like at least months worth of day to day study you might be able to understand the theory and just magically be able to practically apply all of it.

But that's a rare reefer.

 

[MONTANTK]

TLDR all responses.

the #1 reason to take it slow in SW is the LEARNING CURVE IS HUGE.

It's more about Chemistry than the actual gosh dang inhabitants.

FW is so basic in comparison. It's like kindergarten vs college.

I agree the learning curve is huge, even just with getting used to new tank size and equipment. Years ago I was always told we’re not livestock keepers but rather water keeps and it totally made sense.

Funny enough every FW tank I have set up has failed but I’ve always done well with SW

 

[Gup]

You don’t have to set up a system and ‘go slow’, you can do it very quickly but only if you know what your doing. The use of bottled bacteria these days means you can cycle a tank immediately so it’s ready to go.

I think ‘go slow’ is general advice for the masses, especially new reefers, and generally comes from the scenario of ‘I read it so I’ll just repeat it’

This tank (530g) was set up with 30 fish added on day 1. It’s now 12 months old, so you can do it very quickly providing you have all systems in place and monitor water quality and have an idea what your doing Im not recommending everyone go and try this, but it can easily be achieved

@FishyFishFish I think your comment below about sums it up perfectly

“Maybe speed of progress is based a large amount on the research, knowledge level and prior preparation of the reefer as much as (or even more) than the build up of life in the aquarium”

What time frame are you suggesting when you use the word "immediately" with using bottled nitrogen cycle products

 

[SoAg Reefer]

You dont have to go slow. Many people say that but I have a thriving SPS tank and I added fish within a couple days and acropora within a week. 11 months later I still have those inhabitants. If you do your research and have the money to spend to do it right, the aging philosophy of dead shrimp and waiting months is proved wrong every time. Many disagree with that so i set out to prove it wrong myself and did just that. So while most will stick to how it's always been done and believe they are correct, fact is it can be done fast and done successfully. It's not easy but can be done. However, you have to put the time and money into it if you want to skip steps. Just look at my build thread if you doubt what I say. I do agree that there is a learning curve and mistakes will be made but just because people are used to slow and steady doesnt mean it's the end all be all