Will Diatoms keep Zoanthids closed

[Luckki]

Hey Everyone,

I had to work for a few weeks out of town and my wife was taking care of the new tank while I was away. This is the first time that I have kept corals and was wondering if Diatoms would affect Zoanthids. I have checked with a microscope and can see the ship like shape of the brown algae. I also did a 3:1 Hydrogen Peroxide dip on them as they had some growing between polyps this seemed to make two of my frags start to partially open, but the rest are still shut tight. Any information would help.

Thank you,
Luckki

Water parameters are as follows

PH 8.2
dKH 7.5
Phosphates .06 ppm
Nitrates 10 ppm
ammonia present, but not measurable
nitrite present, but not measurable
Temp 77.5-78.5 F
Ca 430 ish
Mg 1360 ish
Salinity 35 ppt

Lights are X360 tuna 100% intensity set at 18" off the surface of a WB AIO 20 Peninsula tank
power head Nero 3 pulse at 60% (was set at 50%) and a 1 hour storm variable from 20%-100% high variance.

Extra information:
This tank was set up about two months ago. This tank is in the middle of the uglies right now. The photo period is about 5 hours with a two hour ramp on either side. Moon light on for one extra hour and the night.
I did have an ammonia spike the other day this was on purpose as my Nitrates were 0 ppm and I needed to get the up to around 10ppm for the corals. I am assuming that the fish are not able to produce enough ammonia to feed the corals. I dosed what I had on hand which was some ammonia chloride. Over night this was converted into 8 ppm nitrates. I held off on a water change for three days to make sure my Nitrates are not bottoming out and did a 50% water change when the nitrates got to about 15-17 ppm. Now the tank is stable at 10 ppm. It has been two days.
I now have nitrogen to dose to the tank should it be needed.
added today a 25 micron filter floss to the top of my media to catch some Diatoms that were in the water column. The water had a slight brown tint, like tannins in a fresh water tank.

Diatoms seem to be clearing out, I thought at first it might be Cyano or Dinos, but this critter is the only thing that I see under the scope. There are a lot of them too. I have increased the flow of the power head.



Before:




Since Diatoms showed up about two weeks ago, these were taken this morning when the photo period just started. Now there are more on the sand, but not much on the rock. Yesterday it was way worse.

 

[Macbalacano]

In my experience, diatoms in of themselves would not make Zoas shut, it is likely something else.

How long were they in the tank before they stayed shut?

How long have they been shut for?

 

[Luckki]

In my experience, diatoms in of themselves would not make Zoas shut, it is likely something else.

How long were they in the tank before they stayed shut?

How long have they been shut for?

They have been in for a little over a month, they have also been shut for about 5-7 days. Oh and my light has a narrow reflector on it hence the height. They are getting reefroids once a week to supplement them. I have about three new polyps on each coral frag since I put them in. Do you think I should just give it more time? My main concern is that they were looking really great, and then they were shut, not just one or two, but all of them.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I don't think diatoms will bother zoa's, algae normaly doesn't grow on healthy corals. I would say something else is bothering the zoa's.

The tank is very new, parameters seem to fluctuate a lot. Alkalinity and phosphate are 2 important tests you need for corals, these are the 2 that should be kept stable.

The water surface is also very flat and I see no powerheads. Do you have any flow in the tank? Better to get and point a powerhead at the water surface to break up the surface and help with gas exchange. Corals need flow.

I don't see any snails, do you have any clean up crew? You are starting to get algae, so now is a good time for clean up crew.

Are you using rodi water?

I think its just new tank and new hobbyist. It will take time for the tank to mature, be patient.

 

[Luckki]

I don't think diatoms will bother zoa's, algae normaly doesn't grow on healthy corals. I would say something else is bothering the zoa's.

The tank is very new, parameters seem to fluctuate a lot. Alkalinity and phosphate are 2 important tests you need for corals, these are the 2 that should be kept stable.

The water surface is also very flat and I see no powerheads. Do you have any flow in the tank? Better to get and point a powerhead at the water surface to break up the surface and help with gas exchange. Corals need flow.

I don't see any snails, do you have any clean up crew? You are starting to get algae, so now is a good time for clean up crew.

Are you using rodi water?

I think its just new tank and new hobbyist. It will take time for the tank to mature, be patient.

I have a power head that does agitate the surface I increased the flow output from 50% to 60%. I also have a storm 1-3 times a week for about 1 hour where the power head goes from 25%- 100% causing anything not being eaten or taken care of to be stirred up to be pulled out by the filter. Other wise it is on its daily routine of pulse of 60% flow. I agree the tank is new, however the parameters have been checked almost daily since I started to cycle the tank. They have been daily stable with the exception of the Nitrates disappearing over night. I also have a clean up crew consisting of hermit crabs, one emerald crab, and snails of various types, including one tiger conch. I have not seen any die off of snails but some of the hermits have gotten stuck in the rock work and died. They were a pain to dig out.

I do use RODI water normal input TDS is 14-16 and output is 0, I have a four stage from BRS. I just changed out the filters because my pump (booster pump failed) was acting funny so they are not the issue either. dKH has been stable at 7.5 for about a month. If this needs to be boosted I will have to try a different salt mix or I will have to start dosing something to make 8.0- 8.5. As for the phosphates those might have had fluctuations due to water changes, but they have been between .05-0.1 ppm since the corals have been in the water. I appreciate your insight and will double check everything to make sure I am not messing anything up. I did change salts that might be why I am struggling to get above 8dkh. As I will keep any eye on the parameters and may go back to 2.5 gallon water changes daily.

 

[Macbalacano]

To be honest, I’m stumped. If it were me I’d try:
-30% water change
-Run Polyfill in filter chamber and carbon (if you don't already)

Just trying to rule out that there is something in the water that could be bothering them.

 

[Luckki]

To be honest, I’m stumped. If it were me I’d try:
-30% water change
-Run Polyfill in filter chamber and carbon (if you don't already)

Just trying to rule out that there is something in the water that could be bothering them.

I did about a 30% and added some 50 micron filtration media to the back. I refreshed my carbon to make sure it was not leaching stuff back into the water. The Diatoms seem to be on the decline now I can still take random water column samples and see them free flotation but it is a lot less of them. Everything seems stable still nitrates at 10ppm phosphates at .06 today. I got a turkey baster to clean of the rock and corals should there be and cyano or Dinos.
Thanks you for your advice,
Luckki

 

[Luckki]

Well I have some news! After testing several areas and looking into a blinding light for about three hours, I finally found some Dinos in the water. Based on the size of the diatom next to it I am guessing that this is Amphidinium (Small Cell). The toxins are low to medium compared to other Dinos, but from what I have read Zoanthids can be really sensitive to them.

Here is a video of it swimming too.

 

[Peair]

Hey Everyone,

I had to work for a few weeks out of town and my wife was taking care of the new tank while I was away. This is the first time that I have kept corals and was wondering if Diatoms would affect Zoanthids. I have checked with a microscope and can see the ship like shape of the brown algae. I also did a 3:1 Hydrogen Peroxide dip on them as they had some growing between polyps this seemed to make two of my frags start to partially open, but the rest are still shut tight. Any information would help.

Thank you,
Luckki

Water parameters are as follows

PH 8.2
dKH 7.5
Phosphates .06 ppm
Nitrates 10 ppm
ammonia present, but not measurable
nitrite present, but not measurable
Temp 77.5-78.5 F
Ca 430 ish
Mg 1360 ish
Salinity 35 ppt

Lights are X360 tuna 100% intensity set at 18" off the surface of a WB AIO 20 Peninsula tank
power head Nero 3 pulse at 60% (was set at 50%) and a 1 hour storm variable from 20%-100% high variance.

Extra information:
This tank was set up about two months ago. This tank is in the middle of the uglies right now. The photo period is about 5 hours with a two hour ramp on either side. Moon light on for one extra hour and the night.
I did have an ammonia spike the other day this was on purpose as my Nitrates were 0 ppm and I needed to get the up to around 10ppm for the corals. I am assuming that the fish are not able to produce enough ammonia to feed the corals. I dosed what I had on hand which was some ammonia chloride. Over night this was converted into 8 ppm nitrates. I held off on a water change for three days to make sure my Nitrates are not bottoming out and did a 50% water change when the nitrates got to about 15-17 ppm. Now the tank is stable at 10 ppm. It has been two days.
I now have nitrogen to dose to the tank should it be needed.
added today a 25 micron filter floss to the top of my media to catch some Diatoms that were in the water column. The water had a slight brown tint, like tannins in a fresh water tank.

Diatoms seem to be clearing out, I thought at first it might be Cyano or Dinos, but this critter is the only thing that I see under the scope. There are a lot of them too. I have increased the flow of the power head.



Before:




Since Diatoms showed up about two weeks ago, these were taken this morning when the photo period just started. Now there are more on the sand, but not much on the rock. Yesterday it was way worse.

My experience is that Diatoms have a slight effect on Zoanthids causing them to not thrive, it does not grow on the Zoas but grow on nearby rock Surrounding the zoas. Just make sure all parameters are good, do a water change, and put a few hermit crabs and snails in the tank, keep an eye on the crabs, for they will make zoas to close, and if it gets real bad try some Rawa with a Reactor, and about a couple weeks it should clear up, and your Zoas will be beautiful like my zoas are.

 

[Luckki]

My experience is that Diatoms have a slight effect on Zoanthids causing them to not thrive, it does not grow on the Zoas but grow on nearby rock Surrounding the zoas. Just make sure all parameters are good, do a water change, and put a few hermit crabs and snails in the tank, keep an eye on the crabs, for they will make zoas to close, and if it gets real bad try some Rawa with a Reactor, and about a couple weeks it should clear up.

Thanks for the advice. I will look into those things.

 

[Patx]

Is there at least one frag that you can take out of the tank ?

 

[Luckki]

Is there at least one frag that you can take out of the tank ?

Yes, actually I have not permanently attached all but two. Those two are attached to smaller rocks that can be pulled out. What are you thinking?

 

[Patx]

Dip test...

Im not the king of zoanthid but...
First thing i do whatever the problem.
Peroxyde dip

Some will say 50/50 mix...
But i prefer start low... 1part peroxyde for 10part water tank.

30sec....1minutes... or more... depend of the reaction

 

[Luckki]

Dip test...

Im not the king of zoanthid but...
First thing i do whatever the problem.
Peroxyde dip

Some will say 50/50 mix...
But i prefer start low... 1part peroxyde for 10part water tank.

30sec....1minutes... or more... depend of the reaction

What would I be looking for? I actually did a 3:1 dip today for about 4 minutes.

 

[Patx]

What would I be looking for? I actually did a 3:1 dip today for about 4 minutes.

Did it bubble a little ?

 

[Luckki]

Did it bubble a little ?

Yes they did. Some a bit more than a little almost like an air stone with a small stream of air bubbles.

 

[Patx]

Yes they did. Some a bit more than a little almost like an air stone with a small stream of air bubbles.

ok good, let them rest 1 or 2 day.

 

[Luckki]

In a day or two would you expect them to open or just “peek” out and maybe take longer to open again? If they are agitated by the Dinos in the water I suspect that I will need to continue to do filter changes every morning and the partial water changes after stirring the tank up. This would be to lower the population, and maybe boost the nutrient level to get the hair algae to bloom and fight the Dinos for space. I have the crew for the algae, but do not have a UV sterilizer for my 25 gallon tank. They are hard to come by for this size tank.

 

[Patx]

In a day or two would you expect them to open or just “peek” out and maybe take longer to open again?

They can fully open almost right after the dip or take 1-2 days...
more then that will be suspicious.

 

[Ziggy17]

I dosed silicate to combat my LCA and neither the billions of diatoms nor the LCA affected my zoas .