With all the recent advances in medical technology why cant we get hardcore fish treatments?

[SlugSnorter]

I agree. Its terrible what we all do. I don't think any organism should be forcefully removed from their natural habitat and made to breed in captivity or kept in cramped quarters with poor food and care.

But we do it so please get off your soap boxes and realize I am not talking about a theoretical ideology or any of that garbage. Don't any one of you talk to me about keeping things in captivity because you all do it. Build up their immunity... Treat them right... Thanks.. I am trying and so are we all. That's not what this thread is about so save it...

We keep fish in captivity. Things go bad and they get sick. I would pay the money. would you?

how is it terrible? Unless your a psychopath we tend to provide our fish with the best lives we can, free as possible from fighting, treated for illness, and they never go hungry (although some act like they do lol).

 

[Projects with Sam]

Working ich vaccines have been developed a long time ago. Not sure why they haven't hit the market.

People in the freshwater forums are still struggling to provide a Civil War era level of care to their fish. They still can't use antibiotics effectively...

Is it the liability of bringing something to market? Who has the rights to those vaccines? Is it simply a case of connecting investors to scientists? Has this been evaluated and deemed not lucrative?

 

[Projects with Sam]

how is it terrible? Unless your a psychopath we tend to provide our fish with the best lives we can, free as possible from fighting, treated for illness, and they never go hungry (although some act like they do lol).

I love my fish. they saved my life by helping me quit tobacco.
I just posted a lot of the contrary opinions early to hopefully avoid the tang police

 

[SlugSnorter]

you should now research every case on that forum for preexisting conditions, lifestyle, genetics, et, before copying and pasting a google link to prove something about immunity

what? I feel both points are weird (weirdly phrased at least). Here's my take:

Fish have immune systems, its our jobs to maintain them and keep them healthy, but sometimes its not enough, we need to medicate them, its cruel not to. A fish basically cannot survive brook untreated, so we medicate them, a fish can have a hard time with ich in our tanks that are not diluted like the ocean is, so we treat them and then help to manage ich or let the ich die off.

 

[Lyss]

It's 2016, where is the ich vaccine?

In 2010 scientists felt a lifelong, easy to use ich vaccine was right around the corner. Where is it?

www.reef2reef.com

Also, unless there is significant economic reason to develop something like this (ex: agricultural), it's not a priority.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

what? I feel both points are weird (weirdly phrased at least). Here's my take:

Fish have immune systems, its our jobs to maintain them and keep them healthy, but sometimes its not enough, we need to medicate them, its cruel not to. A fish basically cannot survive brook untreated, so we medicate them, a fish can have a hard time with ich in our tanks that are not diluted like the ocean is, so we treat them and then help to manage ich or let the ich die off.

Later in the thread I addressed that point...I just think that meds are overused to the point that they become less than a blessing

 

[SlugSnorter]

Is it the liability of bringing something to market? Who has the rights to those vaccines? Is it simply a case of connecting investors to scientists? Has this been evaluated and deemed not lucrative?

Expensive and hard to administer as a hobbyist, and not that many sales would come from it. also ich has lots of strains, and there are lots and lots and LOTS of "fish" that we keep that can get ich, its neigh impossible to test all of them

 

[Brady4000]

I just posted a lot of the contrary opinions early to hopefully avoid the tang police

So your arguing with yourself??

I don’t see anyone saying really anything that got you going… Someone talked about immunity… Paul B of all people and you went on a rant about captivity…

 

[SlugSnorter]

Later in the thread I addressed that point...I just think that meds are overused to the point that they become less than a blessing

I haven't seen overuse on a hobbyist level. It's quite rare. Overuse is an issue with the global medical(etc.) and agricultural level mainly

 

[Projects with Sam]

It's 2016, where is the ich vaccine?

In 2010 scientists felt a lifelong, easy to use ich vaccine was right around the corner. Where is it?

www.reef2reef.com

Also, unless there is significant economic reason to develop something like this (ex: agricultural), it's not a priority.

Thanks! very informative!
I like the idea going forward of possibly eradicating it in captive bred populations

 

[SlugSnorter]

So your arguing with yourself??

I don’t see anyone saying really anything that got you going… Someone talked about immunity… Paul B of all people and you went on a rant about captivity…

This thread is a trip lol, lets talk about something else... how bout the funniest fish? My vote is Puffers

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I haven't seen overuse on a hobbyist level. It's quite rare. Overuse is an issue with the global medical(etc.) and agricultural level mainly

Every time I come to visit America, I ask on the forums what are the absolute necessary meds I need to buy here because many aren't available where I am...the list I get is ridiculously long and in the past when I've tried one medication that failed, I get a cocktail of others recommended...it seems a little excessive to me

 

[Malcontent]

Some Crypto vaccine studies:

Immune responses and immune-related gene expression profile in orange-spotted grouper after immunization with Cryptocaryon irritans vaccine

In order to elucidate the immune-protective mechanisms of inactivated Cryptocaryon irritans vaccine, different doses of C. irritans theronts were used…

www.sciencedirect.com

Immunization of grouper, Epinephelus coioides, confers protection against a protozoan parasite, Cryptocaryon irritans

The present study aimed to determine whether protection is conferred by immunization of grouper, Epinephelus coioides, against a protozoan parasite, C…

www.sciencedirect.com

There's quite a few and for freshwater ich as well.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Every time I come to visit America, I ask on the forums what are the absolute necessary meds I need to buy here because many aren't available where I am...the list I get is ridiculously long and in the past when I've tried one medication that failed, I get a cocktail of others recommended...it seems a little excessive to me

Lots of meds, your not supposed to use all at once, different meds are for different things and you never know what exactly you will need due to the large number of issues possible, so people will give you a list to stock up on in case of the worst. I dont understand what meds you are referring to when you say a cocktail of them, you only should be using a med or two at a time unless you know they are safe to use together and are needed.

 

[WVNed]

LOL
I have been blessed to have several chronic diseases. Modern medical tech seems about a 1/2 step away from dancing around a fire in a mask to scare the cooties away.

Ever read any drug monographs or package inserts? For the vast majority of them the mechanism of action is unknown.

Metformin. One of the most commonly used diabetes drugs.
Metformin was first described in the scientific literature in 1922, by Emil Werner and James Bell, as a product in the synthesis of N,N-dimethylguanidine.[121] In 1929, Slotta and Tschesche discovered its sugar-lowering action in rabbits, finding it the most potent biguanide analog they studied.[

The molecular mechanism of metformin is not completely understood. Multiple potential mechanisms of action have been proposed

85 million prescriptions given for metformin in 2019.

 

[Projects with Sam]

So your arguing with yourself??

I don’t see anyone saying really anything that got you going… Someone talked about immunity… Paul B of all people and you went on a rant about captivity…

Thanks! I got carried away, sorry if offended anyone. Just a little touchy after seeing what I think is ich in my tank and being nervous about going away on vacation for a week... Have ordered Polyp Labs Medic in the hopes my fish'll be alive when I get back.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

LOL
I have been blessed to have several chronic diseases. Modern medical tech seems about a 1/2 step away from dancing around a fire in a mask to scare the cooties away.

Ever read any drug monographs or package inserts? For the vast majority of them the mechanism of action is unknown.

Metformin. One of the most commonly used diabetes drugs.
Metformin was first described in the scientific literature in 1922, by Emil Werner and James Bell, as a product in the synthesis of N,N-dimethylguanidine.[121] In 1929, Slotta and Tschesche discovered its sugar-lowering action in rabbits, finding it the most potent biguanide analog they studied.[

The molecular mechanism of metformin is not completely understood. Multiple potential mechanisms of action have been proposed

85 million prescriptions given for metformin in 2019.

NO, I've been advised by experienced hobbyists to administer 3 to 4 medications at once followed by another combination shortly later.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

and I"m not going into my personal medical history here but many times people are better off without several chemical compounds running through their veins. and yes I do know about this subject

 

[SlugSnorter]

LOL
I have been blessed to have several chronic diseases. Modern medical tech seems about a 1/2 step away from dancing around a fire in a mask to scare the cooties away.

Ever read any drug monographs or package inserts? For the vast majority of them the mechanism of action is unknown.

Metformin. One of the most commonly used diabetes drugs.
Metformin was first described in the scientific literature in 1922, by Emil Werner and James Bell, as a product in the synthesis of N,N-dimethylguanidine.[121] In 1929, Slotta and Tschesche discovered its sugar-lowering action in rabbits, finding it the most potent biguanide analog they studied.[

The molecular mechanism of metformin is not completely understood. Multiple potential mechanisms of action have been proposed

85 million prescriptions given for metformin in 2019.

we don't fully understand how anethstia works either, doesn't mean its bad. We know it works, we know the risks involved and what it helps with, but the exact mechanism is unknown. This doesn't mean you shouldn't use it if you need it to survive.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

we don't fully understand how anethstia works either, doesn't mean its bad. We know it works, we know the risks involved and what it helps with, but the exact mechanism is unknown. This doesn't mean you shouldn't use it if you need it to survive.

The original post was about hardcore drugs to combat ich. not about saving people's lives