Yet, another QT question by this noobie!

[um_fan5]

So over the weekend I started my 20G QT tank using water from the DT from the water change.
Made more saltwater then I would need intentionally so the QT has about 15G of DT water and 5 "new/fresh" water.
Running now for 24hrs and it won't see a fish till Wed. (4 days)

Usual equipment a QT will need...so my question is my medication and procedure.
Here's my plan:
** Day 1: float or drip acclimate fish --> Copper (cupramine) @ 1.0ppm
Day 2: Copper @ 1.25ppm
Day 3: Copper @ 1.50ppm
Day 4: Copper @ 1.75ppm
Day 5: Copper @ 2.00ppm
Day 6: Copper @ 2.25ppm
Day 7 ~30: Copper @ 2.50ppm

**
This with a combination of General Cure or Seachem Focus and Metroplex
Guess the question should I use General Cure or just stick to Focus and Metroplex?
I'm leaning towards Focus and Metroplex...unless someone has a better option!
Should I dip the fish first in something like Safety Stop or fresh water before it enters the QT

Thanks!

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Cupramine therapeutic level is .50ppm. I don't suggest going higher than .60ppm. Ramp over 4 day period. I usually hit .20ppm on day one, .30ppm day 2, .40ppm day 3, .50ppm day 4. It also helps to split doses am/pm.

I also suggest not adding additional medications to the water column until the fish has fully acclimated to the copper treatment. Also make sure the surface is highly agitated with additional power head, HOB Filter or airstone.

Additionally, the combination of focus and metro is used for internal parasites as focus binds the medication to the foods. General Cure contains praziquantel and metro so I typically treat the water column 7 days after the fish has done will with copper in the water.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

Hey, great job on doing a quarantine. I’m a UM grad and happy to see someone else on the forums.

I’m not a huge fan of treating every fish for everything and prefer to Target my quarantine when possible. Could you tell us what types of fish you want to run through the QT

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So over the weekend I started my 20G QT tank using water from the DT from the water change.
Made more saltwater then I would need intentionally so the QT has about 15G of DT water and 5 "new/fresh" water.
Running now for 24hrs and it won't see a fish till Wed. (4 days)

Usual equipment a QT will need...so my question is my medication and procedure.
Here's my plan:
** Day 1: float or drip acclimate fish --> Copper (cupramine) @ 1.0ppm
Day 2: Copper @ 1.25ppm
Day 3: Copper @ 1.50ppm
Day 4: Copper @ 1.75ppm
Day 5: Copper @ 2.00ppm
Day 6: Copper @ 2.25ppm
Day 7 ~30: Copper @ 2.50ppm

**
This with a combination of General Cure or Seachem Focus and Metroplex
Guess the question should I use General Cure or just stick to Focus and Metroplex?
I'm leaning towards Focus and Metroplex...unless someone has a better option!
Should I dip the fish first in something like Safety Stop or fresh water before it enters the QT

Thanks!

Pathot is correct - that dose doesn't sound right for Cupramine, more like Copper Power I think.

I would caution you that using DT water to start a cycle in a QT isn't going to provide enough nitrifying bacteria. These bacteria colonize surfaces and are not common in the water column. You will need to somehow transfer more bacteria over to the QT. Many people use inoculated sponge filters (but that takes time) others take substrate or rock from the established DT (but of course, that can cause issues in a QT). Still others rely on various bacterial inoculants, but I've had poor results with those that I've used. What you DON'T want is to deal with ammonia problems in your QT. If you try to use Prime or other ammonia detoxifiers, it will release the amine bond in the copper, flooding the tank with free copper, killing the fish. Then, Cupramine confounds some ammonia test kits, giving a false high reading.


Jay

 

[um_fan5]

Thanks everyone!

@Jay Hemdal you're correct, 2.5 ppm was based on Copper Power and not Cupramine!
I have HOB with just a filter sponge (removed carbon filter), 2 small power heads: One pointed up and one at the bottom on a timer just to clean the detritus at the end of the day! I do have an air pump but figured I have enough surface agitation between the HOB filter and the power head.

@drmantistoboggan Not a UM grad...transferred down the street to FIU after a year (Cheaper!) but I've always been a huge UM football fan!
Since I'm new to the hobby, I haven't developed that keen eye and figured I'll do my best to try and prevent anything.
As far as what fish...not sure yet. Heading to the LFS this week with the Mrs. It's her turn to pick something out...I think I already know what...blue hippo tang (Dory) and something else.

@pathot984 Thank you!
I do have a couple of those MarinePure bio balls in there that's been in the sump for about a month now!
Not sure if that's going to be enough.

So my plan based and what I've read...please let know if this makes sense and correct.
Granted...I know in this hobby "there's more than one way to skin a cat"

• Day 1: acclimate fish and drop in QT <-- Should I dip the fish before placing them in the QT
• Day 2: Let the fish relax and chill
• Day 3: Start copper (Copper Power or Cupramine)
• Day 4 ~ 11'ish: Raise to respective recommend therapeutic level
• Day 11'ish: Start General Cure and or Seachem Focus and Metroplex
• Day 33: If everything looks good...transfer to DT

Not noted above are any water changes that will be needed along the way!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks everyone!

@Jay Hemdal you're correct, 2.5 ppm was based on Copper Power and not Cupramine!
I have HOB with just a filter sponge (removed carbon filter), 2 small power heads: One pointed up and one at the bottom on a timer just to clean the detritus at the end of the day! I do have an air pump but figured I have enough surface agitation between the HOB filter and the power head.

@drmantistoboggan Not a UM grad...transferred down the street to FIU after a year (Cheaper!) but I've always been a huge UM football fan!
Since I'm new to the hobby, I haven't developed that keen eye and figured I'll do my best to try and prevent anything.
As far as what fish...not sure yet. Heading to the LFS this week with the Mrs. It's her turn to pick something out...I think I already know what...blue hippo tang (Dory) and something else.

@pathot984 Thank you!
I do have a couple of those MarinePure bio balls in there that's been in the sump for about a month now!
Not sure if that's going to be enough.

So my plan based and what I've read...please let know if this makes sense and correct.
Granted...I know in this hobby "there's more than one way to skin a cat"

• Day 1: acclimate fish and drop in QT <-- Should I dip the fish before placing them in the QT
• Day 2: Let the fish relax and chill
• Day 3: Start copper (Copper Power or Cupramine)
• Day 4 ~ 11'ish: Raise to respective recommend therapeutic level
• Day 11'ish: Start General Cure and or Seachem Focus and Metroplex
• Day 33: If everything looks good...transfer to DT

Not noted above are any water changes that will be needed along the way!

IMO - I don’t FW dip fish going into a tank after acclimation, it is very stressful to him them like that, and dips are not 100% effective, so any parasites are going to get past them anyway.
Jay

 

[drmantistoboggan]

Thanks everyone!

@Jay Hemdal you're correct, 2.5 ppm was based on Copper Power and not Cupramine!
I have HOB with just a filter sponge (removed carbon filter), 2 small power heads: One pointed up and one at the bottom on a timer just to clean the detritus at the end of the day! I do have an air pump but figured I have enough surface agitation between the HOB filter and the power head.

@drmantistoboggan Not a UM grad...transferred down the street to FIU after a year (Cheaper!) but I've always been a huge UM football fan!
Since I'm new to the hobby, I haven't developed that keen eye and figured I'll do my best to try and prevent anything.
As far as what fish...not sure yet. Heading to the LFS this week with the Mrs. It's her turn to pick something out...I think I already know what...blue hippo tang (Dory) and something else.

@pathot984 Thank you!
I do have a couple of those MarinePure bio balls in there that's been in the sump for about a month now!
Not sure if that's going to be enough.

So my plan based and what I've read...please let know if this makes sense and correct.
Granted...I know in this hobby "there's more than one way to skin a cat"

• Day 1: acclimate fish and drop in QT <-- Should I dip the fish before placing them in the QT
• Day 2: Let the fish relax and chill
• Day 3: Start copper (Copper Power or Cupramine)
• Day 4 ~ 11'ish: Raise to respective recommend therapeutic level
• Day 11'ish: Start General Cure and or Seachem Focus and Metroplex
• Day 33: If everything looks good...transfer to DT

Not noted above are any water changes that will be needed along the way!

Just be careful and do your research. Some fish handle certain medications very well and some don’t. Copper can be a big cause of death with some species. If you get a hippo tang, ich will probably be your biggest worry so the regiment you set up before would be good for that.

 

[um_fan5]

Thanks guys!

@Jay Hemdal So straight into QT after acclimation! (check)

@drmantistoboggan That's my general plan...obviously it will depend on the specific fish.

I just wanted to make sure I understood the process.

How about running the QT in hyposalinity and those medications and or different types of fish in at the same time?

 

[drmantistoboggan]

If you want to QT different fish at the same time, that’s fine but try to put them all in at the same time. It gives you more control and assurance all are being treated with a full dose. Lots of places run lower salinity with their quarantine. Some fish take to it better than others but just watch them and it should be fine. Some people also do freshwater dips as part of their QT process as well

Thanks guys!

@Jay Hemdal So straight into QT after acclimation! (check)

@drmantistoboggan That's my general plan...obviously it will depend on the specific fish.

I just wanted to make sure I understood the process.

How about running the QT in hyposalinity and those medications and or different types of fish in at the same time?

 

[piranhaman00]

Copper Power is far superior to cupramine for various reasons.

IME raising copper that slow is not necessary and just leads to prolonged copper exposure. I always drop the fish in at 1.0ppm and within 24 hours I am at 2.15ppm with two small doses 12hrs apart. I would not go higher than 2.25ppm.

If you are only using one QT tank you must treat for 30 days. I would not use copper, metro and prazi all at once. Its possible but causes issues. You can feed the fish metro or GC with focus during copper but dosing water column might be problematic.

 

[um_fan5]

@drmantistoboggan Thank you! heading to the LFS tomorrow. Are you located in Miami?

@piranhaman00 Really...that fast raising copper!
For sure min 30 days in QT

My plans were not to dose the water column with GC or Metro/Focus but mix it with the food!

What's your Q process looks like?
Seen so many YT videos and everyone is say do this do that...it's like holly $___ could I get one simple effective way!

 

[piranhaman00]

@drmantistoboggan Thank you! heading to the LFS tomorrow. Are you located in Miami?

@piranhaman00 Really...that fast raising copper!
For sure min 30 days in QT

My plans were not to dose the water column with GC or Metro/Focus but mix it with the food!

What's your Q process looks like?
Seen so many YT videos and everyone is say do this do that...it's like holly $___ could I get one simple effective way!

The best way by far, is to use two separate tanks. One is 14 days at theraputic copper, and the other is for GC/prazi/metro ect as well as observation. This gives less time in copper. I would be hesitant to transfer from copper QT right to DT. I like having time to observe in a totally new, no copper QT so parasites are not just being suppressed and if they are there, they will show up on fish.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

@drmantistoboggan Thank you! heading to the LFS tomorrow. Are you located in Miami?

@piranhaman00 Really...that fast raising copper!
For sure min 30 days in QT

My plans were not to dose the water column with GC or Metro/Focus but mix it with the food!

What's your Q process looks like?
Seen so many YT videos and everyone is say do this do that...it's like holly $___ could I get one simple effective way!

No longer in Miami. I’m now in the Baltimore area. 90% or more don’t even QT. I personally don’t QT but make sure I buy from vendors who do extensive QT and I pay a premium for it. I did get velvet about 9 weeks or so ago from buying a purchase on a whim from a store I didn’t know and paid the price then. You can do a QT with just a 10 gallon tank kit from petco. Most fish will be fine in a 10-20 gallon tank by themselves during QT and those kits come with heart filter etc for around 60 bucks.

There’s a thread somewhere on here on Humblefish recommending some at home fish treatments to have on hand just Incase something happens because often times when you notice it, you have to act super fast. I do keep a lot of those things on hand.

 

[piranhaman00]

No longer in Miami. I’m now in the Baltimore area. 90% or more don’t even QT. I personally don’t QT but make sure I buy from vendors who do extensive QT and I pay a premium for it. I did get velvet about 9 weeks or so ago from buying a purchase on a whim from a store I didn’t know and paid the price then. You can do a QT with just a 10 gallon tank kit from petco. Most fish will be fine in a 10-20 gallon tank by themselves during QT and those kits come with heart filter etc for around 60 bucks.

There’s a thread somewhere on here on Humblefish recommending some at home fish treatments to have on hand just Incase something happens because often times when you notice it, you have to act super fast. I do keep a lot of those things on hand.

" I dont QT, but I got velvet" lol

I love your username though, got them magnums.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

" I dont QT, but I got velvet" lol

I love your username though, got them magnums.

Correct. I said I don’t QT and didn’t purchase from reputable stores and got dinged. I’m encouraging to QT to prevent the same thing from happening.

 

[jtf74]

Hey, great job on doing a quarantine. I’m a UM grad and happy to see someone else on the forums.

I’m not a huge fan of treating every fish for everything and prefer to Target my quarantine when possible. Could you tell us what types of fish you want to run through the QT

Same. Let them settle . Get them eating and stress free, and treat only if needed. My QT time is 72 days and I prefer one fish at a time. Have rarely needed to treat a fish in QT. Mine are all at least 3 years old now and none needed treatment. My new copperband which has been in QT for a month now is the latest and so far not needing treatment either just fattening up. I also like to use a larger QT especially for tangs,angels, butterflies, with liverock that I will sacrifice if treatment is needed so they have a live food source and a calm environment. Medicines stress the fish, so why do it if they aren't sick?

 

[um_fan5]

The best way by far, is to use two separate tanks. One is 14 days at theraputic copper, and the other is for GC/prazi/metro ect as well as observation. This gives less time in copper. I would be hesitant to transfer from copper QT right to DT. I like having time to observe in a totally new, no copper QT so parasites are not just being suppressed and if they are there, they will show up on fish.

I would love to have multiple tanks for QT'ing but between the 90G DT and the 20G QT and telling my wife..."hey I need to get another tank" yeah right! Not going over well! I only have 2 clowns in my DT that were purchased from TSM since I didn't have a QT ready yet and didn't want to play "Russian Roulette" with the LFS. While I was there, I notice a few Tangs literally smashing themselves against the rock! That's when I said F this...I'll buy the clowns from TSM!
Nothing against the LFS...since most are the business of flipping the fish as quickly as possible.

I agree with @drmantistoboggan I'll much prefer to pay a little extra to a facilitate as TSM for there QT'ing...But I also now I need to have a tank just in case of emergency!

Since I have 1 20G QT...I'm thinking:
Run copper for 14 or 30 days...20% water change and remove rest with Cuprisorb and or Poly-Filter
Observe for the next 14-15 days and transfer to DT.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

I would love to have multiple tanks for QT'ing but between the 90G DT and the 20G QT and telling my wife..."hey I need to get another tank" yeah right! Not going over well! I only have 2 clowns in my DT that were purchased from TSM since I didn't have a QT ready yet and didn't want to play "Russian Roulette" with the LFS. While I was there, I notice a few Tangs literally smashing themselves against the rock! That's when I said F this...I'll buy the clowns from TSM!
Nothing against the LFS...since most are the business of flipping the fish as quickly as possible.

I agree with @drmantistoboggan I'll much prefer to pay a little extra to a facilitate as TSM for there QT'ing...But I also now I need to have a tank just in case of emergency!

Since I have 1 20G QT...I'm thinking:
Run copper for 14 or 30 days...20% water change and remove rest with Cuprisorb and or Poly-Filter
Observe for the next 14-15 days and transfer to DT.

It’s often not a little extra. It depends on the facility and the fish. So something that takes well to medication, for example clownfish or a marine betta may not cost me much extra at all but something that doesn’t like lionfish or some wrasses, they’ll charge me 2.5 to 3x their cost. They get in a bunch, run them through the gambit of meds, they lose some and the cost is spread out to the survivors