Zoanthids, their colors, and you.

[kevxross]

(Sorry, this thread became long as I tend to ramble. I've bolded lines to create cliffnotes so you can skip the boring crap if you wish.)

Hi folks.. I'm a newb in every respect, but I like zoas! I have a 5.5 gallon nano that I created and it's hosting a few nice zoanthid frags along with all the other coral I managed to fit in there. I have 64W (2 x 32) of PC lighting over this little tank, and this brings me to my topic.. (I did run a search first. Lovely having one that actually functions.)

What is known about zoanthids and their tendancy to morph colors? When I first started setting up this tank I thought 64W of light would be more than enough for the softies, zoas, and LPS I wanted to keep. This turned out to be true, but not exactly spectacular on the zoa front.

I've got blues, pinks, purples, yellows, oranges. The blues are the most upsetting as they're slowly fading to brown, but the other zoas are definately becoming less and less stunning as well. Now I knew when I bought these from Dr. Mac and looking at them under his 400W 20k MH that they wouldn't look quite as nice under my PCs. I didn't, however, expect them to continually fade over time until they weren't even the same zoos I bought.

It's to the point that I'm very serious about upgrading my lighting to MH already. I figure the investment is worth the value that I'll otherwise lose out of my zoas if I don't upgrade. So after much rambling (sorry) the reason for this thread is that I want to know what is known about zoanthids and how they morph and why. I figured it could be a good discussion for you zoa experts.

I know they have zooxanthellae which give them their colors, and that they will expell these zooxanthellae occasionally and if stressed, etc... and that's about it.

If I upgrade to MH, will they regain the beautiful colors they once had?

How long will it take?

Do different colored zoas (such as blues) have higher lighting requirements to retain their colors?

 

[kevxross]

I made some comparison shots to show exactly what's happening with my zoas. I have more than these, but their color shift isn't nearly as drastic.

Now white balance and other camera settings might be (probably are) a little different, but you can still see very clearly the differences. I apologize for the poor first shot of the blue zoas - they were at a bad angle in the tank. This is after 1 month, 2 max (depending on which frag). As you can see they're healthy and even growing, they're just losing their color along the way.


Also, when I mentioned the value I'll lose out of these zoas, I meant personally, not commercially. I want the blue zoas I bought, not browns. Just don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about why I'm here.

 

[MarvinsReef]

First off welcome..

If I upgrade to MH, will they regain the beautiful colors they once had?

- some will get their colors back and some will morph into different color, normally to a better morph

How long will it take?

- from as little as a week to 2 months for final morph.. sometimes they will even morph into something else after they establish...

Do different colored zoas (such as blues) have higher lighting requirements to retain their colors?

- blues tend to require less lighting.. some of mine are on overhangs to not get direct lighting.. it really depends on the zoas and as long as you acclimate them slowly, they'll adapt to what lighting you put them under..

hope this makes sense and helped out a bit.. I know more people are going to chime in and help out..

good luck and welcome again..

Marvin

 

[MarvinsReef]

wow.. nice comparison shots.. how long is the time period from when you got 'em til now..

 

[minibowmatt]

are the shots of the first coral in your tank?

Very informative post Marv.

 

[Randy]

I would say that it is the water quality and the lighting.MH will color them back up some. what kind of filter do you have on this tank?Have you tested the water?

 

[ecotoxlady]

Very cool comparison shots. I can see how you would be dissapointed! Did you actually see them in Dr. Mac's tanks or purchase them from the pics on-line? I can say that just photographing a zoa can make their colors look more or less intense in the picture. As far as coloring back up under MH....it will take some time and you will want to acclimate them slowly so they do not bleach from light stress. They should however regain quite a bit of their color. One thing I have learned in my limited experience with MH is that even bulb K value can change how the zoas look. I just switched my 15K bulbs out for 20K bulbs, same manufacturer and wattage type and have seen a drastic difference in how things look. I can't say that the colors have changed so much on the zoas as the blue is bringing out colors to my eye that were not as noticable prior to the change. I hope this helps

 

[surfn]

ya, metal halides all the way. but pics can be deceiving as ecotoxlay suggested.

but yeah, you should NEVER expect a coral to look exactly the same under a different type of lighting, or even in a different tank with the same lighting. too many variables have an affect on this equation.

IMO, MH offers the best selection of contrast when it comes to coloring up corals. when you look at corals under VHO/T5/PC they seem to lose alot of color contrast. but thats JMO.

lighting is all personal preference. there are some people who think their zoas look the best under 10k metal halides. more power to them, but i think they are kidding themselves.

 

[surfn]

btw...those light blues with the yellow skirt and yellow ring in the center are wicked!

and they are the SAME corals as you bought. they havent technically morphed. they've just faded. the morphed term is usually used when a coral has changed colors all together suddenly. yours have mostly just faded/turned brown. i think most of refer to that as fading or browing out.

 

[kevxross]

Thanks for the warm welcome and replies!

The pictures are all taken by me. I saw them all at his facility personally before purchasing them and those "Just Plopped In" shots are from when I first put them in my tank. From there they slowly faded to the "Now" shots.

Water quality stays pretty good. I have a built in false wall creating a fuge in which I have sand, LR, chaeto and Purigen and carbon at the moment. I do weekly water changes of about 20%. I don't have a skimmer, but don't feel I need one.

Sorry for using the term "morph" incorrectly. So basically these zoas aren't permanently ruined and I can someday return them to their original beauty if I fix the cause of the fading?

Should I move them down and maybe even under an overhang and see if they get their color back? Here's a fts just for reference... I have since gotten rid of all the cyano for good I think (there was only ever a little bit).

BTW another probably important detail I left out is that I started out with 2 x 32W 50/50 10,000k/actinic bulbs. I started getting disappointed with the colors, so I replaced one of the bulbs with a full actinic for a while. Just the other day, I switched it back to the original setup. They don't look as colorful as they did with the actinic in there, but I was hoping the more intense light would help them color back up... All are Sunpaq bulbs. All the pics are taken under 2 x 50/50 bulbs.

 

[surfn]

well, you need alot more light. even alot more PC light. 64w just isnt enough. i remember when reading the nano forums, and the lowest recomended light for any size nano was the 96w power quad PC. on a 5.5g, you may have to worry about heat with that light though.

 

[kevxross]

Cool looking nano... Did you make that overflow area yourself? If so do you have any top down shots to see how it all works... I was thinking of setting up a little zoa nano tank after seing some of nanos on here.

Thanks. Yeah, I made everything myself. I love when how I move my thermometer to the fuge and take out the mag float there's essentially no equipment seen in the display aside from the flare nozzle. That's a poor fts.

Anyway here's a top down:


(click to enlarge)

It's basically just the false wall and one baffle separating the fuge and the return chamber. You can see my DIY auto-topoff system in there too (though the float switch is in the hood which is removed for the photo...), so count out salinity swings for causes of fading.

 

[ecotoxlady]

Hey kevxross! So you went to Dr. Mac's facility? Does that mean you live in Maryland? Cause if so we should really set up a time to meet up since I'm in MD myself

 

[kevxross]

Hey kevxross! So you went to Dr. Mac's facility? Does that mean you live in Maryland? Cause if so we should really set up a time to meet up since I'm in MD myself

Indeed. Actually right in Salisbury where Dr. Mac is located (so he says... he's actually in Mardela). I'm guessing you probably live on the wrong side of the bay though like everyone else

Definately let me know though if you're goin to Dr. Mac's some time or something. I have yet to meet another reefer... We should set a group trip if there are other Marylanders here! He'll even get some pizzas for us I've heard!

Now's the time to go too, since he got a huge shipment of zoa frags in from the Solomons and has decent prices on nice frags.

 

[ecotoxlady]

Sounds awesome! It will have to wait a little while only because I am hellishly busy at the moment with preparing to move, starting up grad school and trying to find a roommate alng with other things but boy does pizza sound good right about now....yumm

 

[jessiesgrrl]

Man, you stole my desk...! That Nano is beautiful, awesome job. I don't blame you for being a little confused with lighting those- the heat difference with that amount of water, and the light being so close to the inhabitants is so different than what I am used to with a big tank. You have to be so careful!!

That's an awesome set up, rocks corals and all!!!! Love it...

Laurie

 

[surfn]

that is a sweet nano for a desk.

i have a 7g mini bow with a mantis in it. but it looks crappy right now. hopefully it will be up to PAR by the end of the fall.

i wish i could put together a nano for my desk at work. but....

#1...i dont think the military guys at the gate would let me bring in "corals" and "fish" into a govt controlled area...lol

#2...not sure i would want a tank near my lab with all the toxic chemicals in the environment.

darn

 

[jessiesgrrl]

You work on a military installation, surfn?

Laurie

 

[kevxross]

Thanks for the nice comments everyone!

Any more ideas on my zoas browning out?

I fragged the blues and the purple + yellows to test them out under the overhang. I'll take preliminary pics once they open.

 

[Reef Gardener]

Have you tested for phosphates? IMO phosphate will also "brown-out" corals.