Brook on new clowns ? Advice appreciated

[Jay Hemdal]

No worries at all, it just says on the label - "Formalin 30%" and thats it.
The marine department of my LFS use it in all of their QT tanks when they have a new batch of fish before they put them out for sale.
Its Pond Medic Formalin 30% by Kockney Koi

O.K. - I ran the numbers and it looks like your formalin dose equates to 150 ppm which is spot on. Just be sure to aerate any containers very well when using formalin as a dip.

Jay

 

[Zevulos]

@Jay Hemdal Tysm for looking into it for me. What would be your next steps/precautions to make sure my female does well ?

@Tamberav
Ive uploaded a video on YT so you can see what she is breathing like and how the water movement/aeration is.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal Tysm for looking into it for me. What would be your next steps/precautions to make sure my female does well ?

@Tamberav
Ive uploaded a video on YT so you can see what she is breathing like and how the water movement/aeration is.

It's tough to see much in the video, the clown may be breathing a bit fast, but I can't see any mucus that is normally associated with Brook (touch to see on the white parts of a clownfish).

In addition to formalin dips, you can use formalin as a static bath, at 25 ppm. Trouble is, I'm not used to using that 30% product, so I don't know the dose you should use.....

 

[Zevulos]

It's tough to see much in the video, the clown may be breathing a bit fast, but I can't see any mucus that is normally associated with Brook (touch to see on the white parts of a clownfish).

In addition to formalin dips, you can use formalin as a static bath, at 25 ppm. Trouble is, I'm not used to using that 30% product, so I don't know the dose you should use.....

Ahh ok, I’ve kept an eye on her all night and she is just sat at the top of the tank, she isn’t going up for air but kind of bobbing near the surface.

I offered her food this morning and she took a few bits of mysis and brine shrimp.
This morning I put a HOB filter in addition to the air stone without media just for circulation.

She seems to still be in the same corner bobbing up and down at the surface not really doing much, her breathing can go from fast to normal then back again in the space of 10 minuites
My ammonia is still at 0 in the QT (I’m checking every 3hrs as there is no media in it)

There are no visible signs of Brook on her still so I guess that’s a positive.

Would you dip her again after 48hrs from the first dip and change 100% of the QT water too ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ahh ok, I’ve kept an eye on her all night and she is just sat at the top of the tank, she isn’t going up for air but kind of bobbing near the surface.

I offered her food this morning and she took a few bits of mysis and brine shrimp.
This morning I put a HOB filter in addition to the air stone without media just for circulation.

She seems to still be in the same corner bobbing up and down at the surface not really doing much, her breathing can go from fast to normal then back again in the space of 10 minuites
My ammonia is still at 0 in the QT (I’m checking every 3hrs as there is no media in it)

There are no visible signs of Brook on her still so I guess that’s a positive.

Would you dip her again after 48hrs from the first dip and change 100% of the QT water too ?

A second dip can help, but it is best to then move the fish to a new tank, a 100% water change is not quite the same, as some of the protozoans can survive.

I have done formalin dips in the tank itself and then change 100% of the water, that works better, but must be done very carefully to avoid over exposure.

Also, take care using large amounts of formalin in the home due to human health issues.

 

[Zevulos]

A second dip can help, but it is best to then move the fish to a new tank, a 100% water change is not quite the same, as some of the protozoans can survive.

I have done formalin dips in the tank itself and then change 100% of the water, that works better, but must be done very carefully to avoid over exposure.

Also, take care using large amounts of formalin in the home due to human health issues.

Would you do it tomorrow night so she has had 48hrs to rest ?

Also while she is in a dip would putting the QT tank in tap water for 30 minutes with the air stone and HOB sterilize the tank ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Would you do it tomorrow night so she has had 48hrs to rest ?

Also while she is in a dip would putting the QT tank in tap water for 30 minutes with the air stone and HOB sterilize the tank ?

I've used 2 to 3 days as an interval for this.

Tap water kills by osmotic pressure, and nobody has done specific testing in regards to the time it takes. Most people go with 24 hours just to be safe.

 

[Zevulos]

I've used 2 to 3 days as an interval for this.

Tap water kills by osmotic pressure, and nobody has done specific testing in regards to the time it takes. Most people go with 24 hours just to be safe.

What about adding a bit of bleach to clean out the tank ?
Also how often would you do water changes on the QT tank and how big ? there is no bio-media in there currently.

 

[Zevulos]

I've used 2 to 3 days as an interval for this.

Tap water kills by osmotic pressure, and nobody has done specific testing in regards to the time it takes. Most people go with 24 hours just to be safe.

Also would u recommend getting a bigger QT tank for her for 6 weeks as its only a 10l tank.
Cheers

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also would u recommend getting a bigger QT tank for her for 6 weeks as its only a 10l tank.
Cheers

I’d say a 10 gallon tank (40 L) would be better for long term holding.

 

[Zevulos]

I’d say a 10 gallon tank (40 L) would be better for long term holding.

Thanks, ive just done a 15% water change on the tank making sure to get out and un-eaten food. I've noticed she is much more active now but has started to flash and twitch a little bit more.
Does brook cause this behaviour or could it be something else like velvet ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks, ive just done a 15% water change on the tank making sure to get out and un-eaten food. I've noticed she is much more active now but has started to flash and twitch a little bit more.
Does brook cause this behaviour or could it be something else like velvet ?

Brook can cause some scratching, velvet doesn't really. Flukes are the big culprit with it comes to fish scratching and rubbing.

 

[Zevulos]

Brook can cause some scratching, velvet doesn't really. Flukes are the big culprit with it comes to fish scratching and rubbing.

Ahh ok, she doesn’t do it often at all maybe once every half an hour- an hour.
I’m looking at trying to get her a 40-60 litre tank so she can have a better life for 6 weeks till she goes into my DT again
Would adding a UV to my DT in the mean time help with the 6 week period ?

I run on on my other tank and it’s helped me loads

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ahh ok, she doesn’t do it often at all maybe once every half an hour- an hour.
I’m looking at trying to get her a 40-60 litre tank so she can have a better life for 6 weeks till she goes into my DT again
Would adding a UV to my DT in the mean time help with the 6 week period ?

I run on on my other tank and it’s helped me loads

UV won’t help against flukes at all, and most hobby sized units are too weak to really help all that much against protozoans - UV only kills small free floating disease organisms, and won’t control anything that is on the fish itself.

 

[Zevulos]

Update -
She has been doing well in the small tank but I knew it wasn’t big enough so I bought her a new 50 litre tank on Friday and dipped her for 45 minutes in formalin again.
After the dip I moved her to the new sterile tank.
On Saturday she was fine swimming as usual but not eating, then at night for 2/3 hours she started glass surfing constantly and fairly fast
This morning she is just hovering in one corner of the tank quite often she just slumps into the corner and doesn’t swim, just rests on the bottom.
She isn’t really breathing heavy or fast, I’d say it’s the slowest I’ve ever seen her breathing which I’m not sure is a good thing ?
She took 2 pieces of brineshirimp and has gone right back into her corner slumping into the corner and not doing much.
I’ve kept the salinity at 1.024 and temperature is steady at 25c
My ammonia is reading 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
I did a 10% water change last night

Here is a video of her

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update -
She has been doing well in the small tank but I knew it wasn’t big enough so I bought her a new 50 litre tank on Friday and dipped her for 45 minutes in formalin again.
After the dip I moved her to the new sterile tank.
On Saturday she was fine swimming as usual but not eating, then at night for 2/3 hours she started glass surfing constantly and fairly fast
This morning she is just hovering in one corner of the tank quite often she just slumps into the corner and doesn’t swim, just rests on the bottom.
She isn’t really breathing heavy or fast, I’d say it’s the slowest I’ve ever seen her breathing which I’m not sure is a good thing ?
She took 2 pieces of brineshirimp and has gone right back into her corner slumping into the corner and not doing much.
I’ve kept the salinity at 1.024 and temperature is steady at 25c
My ammonia is reading 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
I did a 10% water change last night

Here is a video of her

You need to lower the air tube to the bottom of the tank and increase the air flow. It won’t cure the issue, but it might help.

 

[Zevulos]

You need to lower the air tube to the bottom of the tank and increase the air flow. It won’t cure the issue, but it might help.

Will do, there is also a 500lph pump on the tank too and I’ve pointed the nozzles so it makes a waterfall down the glass for more oxygenation
Does she look strange to you or is she just doing what clowns do best (being weird)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Will do, there is also a 500lph pump on the tank too and I’ve pointed the nozzles so it makes a waterfall down the glass for more oxygenation
Does she look strange to you or is she just doing what clowns do best (being weird)

She looks a little off, I just wanted to rule out an aeration issue - nothing else obvious to me…..

 

[Zevulos]

Another Update - Gave her another formalin bath yesterday as well as swapping her to a new tank.
Ive bout a big batch of vinegar so i can fully sanitise each QT and air dry.
before the dip last night she was showing a few signs of brook again, mainly on her lower fins (a few dots and a white shine)
She is alot more active now she is in this second new tank.
Hopefully she starts to recover.

Would you be dosing formalin in the QT and not just sticking to Dips ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Another Update - Gave her another formalin bath yesterday as well as swapping her to a new tank.
Ive bout a big batch of vinegar so i can fully sanitise each QT and air dry.
before the dip last night she was showing a few signs of brook again, mainly on her lower fins (a few dots and a white shine)
She is alot more active now she is in this second new tank.
Hopefully she starts to recover.

Would you be dosing formalin in the QT and not just sticking to Dips ?

A combination of dips at 167 ppm and static baths at 25 ppm works well. The math can be a bit tricky though. If you know the EXACT water volume of the tank I can try to walk you through it, but I’m not used to using the 30% product....