Care to review my ICP results and advise?

[exnisstech]

Background. I did a FM ICP test because I received a free test. The tank has been running for 10 months. It was started with all dry rock in the display but the sump is full of old live rock from an 8yo tank I broke down. The sump with the live rock is run as a cryptic zone. Total volume is 285g. The only thing I've dosed is very small amounts of esv two part which I stopped a month ago. I have a couple of LPS along with some softies and water changes seem to be able to keep up with alk levels which run mid 8s using IO salt. I also dose 10ml of bacto balance daily. I use RODI with 0 TDS. Most SPS die in this tank and zoas live but don't thrive. That said I'm not really interested in complicating things by trying to dose trace elements to get them where the results indicate they should be. I run this tank simple and have an acro tank for the challenge. I'm perfectly happy keeping softies and the few LPS I have but if there is something that stands out which really should be addressed I'd like to know. I'm totally ignorant on trace elements and most chemistry in general. TIA

ICP results All the red looks scary lol

Tank

 

[Snowxcross]

Background. I did a FM ICP test because I received a free test. The tank has been running for 10 months. It was started with all dry rock in the display but the sump is full of old live rock from an 8yo tank I broke down. The sump with the live rock is run as a cryptic zone. Total volume is 285g. The only thing I've dosed is very small amounts of esv two part which I stopped a month ago. I have a couple of LPS along with some softies and water changes seem to be able to keep up with alk levels which run mid 8s using IO salt. I also dose 10ml of bacto balance daily. I use RODI with 0 TDS. Most SPS die in this tank and zoas live but don't thrive. That said I'm not really interested in complicating things by trying to dose trace elements to get them where the results indicate they should be. I run this tank simple and have an acro tank for the challenge. I'm perfectly happy keeping softies and the few LPS I have but if there is something that stands out which really should be addressed I'd like to know. I'm totally ignorant on trace elements and most chemistry in general. TIA

ICP results All the red looks scary lol

Tank

Hi, I dont believe you'll be complicating things by following the suggested guidelines it's stating to follow. There are some flags that are worse than others... for example; it shows your PO4 to be 0.6... eh, not a massive big deal in some cases, but a larger issue you have is high aluminum and arsenic which can effect your inhabitants, i mean it's 100% toxic. I would try to not be "ignorant" and work on the RED issues maybe one at a time until you find them in the green. There's a reason these tests exist and it's to benefit the aquarium, just depends if you are going to go with it or not.

 

[exnisstech]

Hi, I dont believe you'll be complicating things by following the suggested guidelines it's stating to follow. There are some flags that are worse than others... for example; it shows your PO4 to be 0.6... eh, not a massive big deal in some cases, but a larger issue you have is high aluminum and arsenic which can effect your inhabitants, i mean it's 100% toxic. I would try to not be "ignorant" and work on the RED issues maybe one at a time until you find them in the green. There's a reason these tests exist and it's to benefit the aquarium, just depends if you are going to go with it or not.

I'm fine with the high PO4 as the tank I tore down always ran high and thrived. I understand how a person would raise elements but how would one go about reducing those toxic elements? Carbon in a reactor maybe?

 

[Garf]

water changes seem to be able to keep up with alk levels which run mid 8s using IO salt

How big, and how often?

 

[Bruttall]

You don't want to do this I am sure, but I would follow the ICP Recommended Dose amounts to balance the tank out, then start adding an all in one product for those trace elements, but troubling are Iodine, Magnesium, Calcium as those are basic nutritional requirements for almost all coral. Once you balance the trace elements out, maintaining them should be pretty cheap because like you said, Not A lot of corals in there.

I'm not sure how to detox the problematic heavy metals you have, never had that issue myself, but I have always kept a fairly large media bag off activated carbon in a high flow area of my sump.

 

[exnisstech]

How big, and how often?

I've been doing 25g every 10-14 days. I did go the entire month of December without one.

 

[Snowxcross]

I'm fine with the high PO4 as the tank I tore down always ran high and thrived. I understand how a person would raise elements but how would one go about reducing those toxic elements? Carbon in a reactor maybe?

Could be from leeching. Do you have bio bricks or some sort of media in your sump other than live rock? any metal parts like clamps, etc?

 

[exnisstech]

Could be from leeching. Do you have bio bricks or some sort of media in your sump other than live rock? any metal parts like clamps, etc?

Nothing at all but old live rock. Clamps are plastic. The only hardware change from the old tank is a different return pump and the addition of a surf 4 ATS which has no metal components as it uses air vs a pump.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m on my phone and don’t care for this presentation they have. I’ll post more later, but I’d boost potassium.

 

[Snowxcross]

Nothing at all but old live rock. Clamps are plastic. The only hardware change from the old tank is a different return pump and the addition of a surf 4 ATS which has no metal components as it uses air vs a pump.

In that case, short term - i would get a small reactor and run rowaphas asap. That will help remove silicates and help with the arsenic. For the aluminum you can start with water changes...

Randy wrote an article around Aluminum - good read.

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium

In this article I will give some details of aluminum in natural seawater, and will discuss the sparse literature on the toxicity of aluminum ions to marine organisms.

reefs.com

 

[exnisstech]

In that case, short term - i would get a small reactor and run rowaphas asap. That will help remove silicates and help with the arsenic. For the aluminum you can start with water changes...

Randy wrote an article around Aluminum - good read.

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium

In this article I will give some details of aluminum in natural seawater, and will discuss the sparse literature on the toxicity of aluminum ions to marine organisms.

reefs.com

Thanks. I have a full container of rowsphos on hand and it won't hurt anything to bring PO4 down some.

EDIT: I just went back and reviewed the results and it has silicone and silicates being too low not high.
@Snowxcross ah but the arsenic. Sorry I'm not the sharpest pencil in the pack

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’d ignore the lithium and barium. They are no concern.

I’d boost the magnesium to 1300 ppm.

I’d consider a trace element supplement, and stop dosing strontium, in case you are.

 

[rtparty]

No wonder they want to have "ICP consultants" for FM stuff. I agree with Randy that the presentation is rough. Sorry, I know this is off topic...

What is your NO3 level and why didn't they test this? I don't agree with the vast majority of their conclusions or any of the ratio stuff they put in there.

I would absolutely bring up potassium, iodine, and manganese. These are all very easy to dose. Tropic Marin A and K elements can be hand dosed once a week if you really want to add some traces in. Alternatively, dosing iodide alone is easy and cheap. 6-9 drops a day should be sufficient in your system to start.

What is your PAR in the tank? When SPS don't survive, I start with light, NO3 and PO4. NO3 around 10ppm and PO4 around .1ppm is a good start. I just want to see them present to be honest.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have a hard time in thinking up any use for the S/sulfate number, except an internal control that the icp isn’t giving entirely false values. The water that folks submit will always match exactly. Deviations are analysis issues, not water issues.

 

[braaap]

Potassium and iodine. 100% You'll see results in less than a month.

 

[exnisstech]

I’d ignore the lithium and barium. They are no concern.

I’d boost the magnesium to 1300 ppm.

I’d consider a trace element supplement, and stop dosing strontium, in case you are.

Thanks Randy. I'd be more comfortable using a TM product vs FM for reasons I'm sure you're aware of so I will look into the TM A and K unless you have another suggestion.

No wonder they want to have "ICP consultants" for FM stuff. I agree with Randy that the presentation is rough. Sorry, I know this is off topic...

What is your NO3 level and why didn't they test this? I don't agree with the vast majority of their conclusions or any of the ratio stuff they put in there.

I would absolutely bring up potassium, iodine, and manganese. These are all very easy to dose. Tropic Marin A and K elements can be hand dosed once a week if you really want to add some traces in. Alternatively, dosing iodide alone is easy and cheap. 6-9 drops a day should be sufficient in your system to start.

What is your PAR in the tank? When SPS don't survive, I start with light, NO3 and PO4. NO3 around 10ppm and PO4 around .1ppm is a good start. I just want to see them present to be honest.

Thanks. FM would not be my first choice. I got the test free which is the only reason I had it done. I think they have two levels of ICP tests. This one was the bottom shelf which may be why they didn't test NO3. It has bounced around a bit but the lowest it has been is 7.5 and the highest 16.2 testing with hanna HR kit.

Par is good 300 - 350 where the SPS was. The biggest loss was an acro colony that I transferred over from the previous tank which was under the same lights. It RTNed after several months in this tank but after dabbling in acros for a couple of years I've come to accept that as long as its a single piece. Monticaps didn't do well either which is what was more concerning because anytime I throw a piece of the orange in a tank it normally thrives. I have a bunch of myagi tort frags / mini colonies and I tried one and it faded away. Again I didn't think too much of it because it came from my acro tank which runs much lower N and P as well as getting AFR dosed daily.

 

[spsick]

The strontium, potassium, and aluminum are the only things that concern me. Bizarre to see Strontium that high if you’re not dosing.

Agree with others that is a really confusing ICP report to read.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Randy. I'd be more comfortable using a TM product vs FM for reasons I'm sure you're aware of so I will look into the TM A and K unless you have another suggestion.



Thanks. FM would not be my first choice. I got the test free which is the only reason I had it done. I think they have two levels of ICP tests. This one was the bottom shelf which may be why they didn't test NO3. It has bounced around a bit but the lowest it has been is 7.5 and the highest 16.2 testing with hanna HR kit.

Par is good 300 - 350 where the SPS was. The biggest loss was an acro colony that I transferred over from the previous tank which was under the same lights. It RTNed after several months in this tank but after dabbling in acros for a couple of years I've come to accept that as long as its a single piece. Monticaps didn't do well either which is what was more concerning because anytime I throw a piece of the orange in a tank it normally thrives. I have a bunch of myagi tort frags / mini colonies and I tried one and it faded away. Again I didn't think too much of it because it came from my acro tank which runs much lower N and P as well as getting AFR dosed daily.

A and K sounds like a good way to go.

 

[exnisstech]

A and K sounds like a good way to go.

I was thinking that but wasn't sure about K since is contains strontium which is highly elevated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was thinking that but wasn't sure about K since is contains strontium which is highly elevated.

My expectation is it doesn’t contain much, but that’s a reasonable consideration. I pretty much think of strontium as an unimportant bystander in most cases, and I’m not sure how high it needs to get to cause issues.