CCFL 253nm Technology

[GARRIGA]

Fluval has been selling these classifiers based on CCFL bulb that supposedly generate 100% 253nm at 6 watts and I've confirmed over the phone with them twice that they are 100% 6 watts of only 253nm. Any one here versed in CCFL to confirm such a bulb can be constructed that generates as advertised?

The FX UVC In-Line Clarifier quickly and easily connects to all canister filters to eliminate suspended algae for a clean and clear aquarium. With unique CCFL technology, the FX UVC bulb runs cooler to last up to 2X longer than traditional lamps. It attacks green and cloudy water by applying powerful, DNA-destroying light emissions at a precise 253 nanometer wavelength. This natural process is chemical-free and will not affect beneficial, surface-dwelling bacterial colonies that are already established. Say goodbye to cloudy and green water forever!

 

[taricha]

Here's the only spectrum I can find for a ccfl uvc bulb.
It's good, might or might not be better in terms of a higher % at germicidal ~253nm than typical uvc fluorescent bulbs. But it's certainly not 100% at 253nm.

 

[GARRIGA]

But that implies it’s purely in that relative spectrum meaning it’s not typically 1/3 as with low pressure UV bulbs which also produce UVA and UVB. Thinking 235/254nm in that UV-C range.

Pentair 25w is only 8w UV-C.

 

[oreo54]

Fluval has been selling these clarifiers based on CCFL bulb that supposedly generate 100% 253nm at 6 watts and I've confirmed over the phone with them twice that they are 100% 6 watts of only 253nm. Any one here versed in CCFL to confirm such a bulb can be constructed that generates as advertised?

Considering the low percentage of other wavelengths it could be considered "effectively" 100%
Normally they want some visible color as a safety measure so you know it's on.

Btw that 23wbuld produces only 5w of UV.

 

[GARRIGA]

Considering the low percentage of other wavelengths it could be considered "effectively" 100%
Normally they want some visible color as a safety measure so you know it's on.

Btw that 23wbuld produces only 5w of UV.

That's my seek on the Fluval solution as they advertise 100% UV-C which would imply no other wave lengths and I believe it does have some visible light and for the reason you mentioned. Seems like false advertising and their own service dept spew the same over the phone and email.

 

[taricha]

I don't know if this device actually does what is suggested, but a purer ~254nm source would be a nice tool for a DIY 254nm absorbance measurement. @Dan_P

 

[Dan_P]

I don't know if this device actually does what is suggested, but a purer ~254nm source would be a nice tool for a DIY 254nm absorbance measurement. @Dan_P

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Aaron Stone]

Why are UV-C LEDs not used in this application?

 

[GARRIGA]

Why are UV-C LEDs not used in this application?

I've wonder myself why UV sterilizers didn't go LED but could it be they aren't powerful enough at a cost effective price.

 

[oreo54]

Why are UV-C LEDs not used in this application?

Cost.

 

[GARRIGA]

Cost.

Wouldn't cost be lower when considering life span of LED could be 50k hours vs 14 months? Along with less heat output for those where running UV and chillers create a conflict.

 

[oreo54]

Wouldn't cost be lower when considering life span of LED could be 50k hours vs 14 months? Along with less heat output for those where running UV and chillers create a conflict.

Efficiency and lifespan aren't (weren't) good.
Any UV LEDs have this issue

Ultraviolet UV-C 275nm Seoul Viosys LED Module

 

[Aaron Stone]

Got it. That is pretty steep for a single LED.

 

[oreo54]

Got it. That is pretty steep for a single LED.

I always like this quote from Steves. This is for a 365nm led though.
Gets troublesome packing all that energy in a tiny space

- Lifespan - Rated at 1,000 hours minimum, although we have been testing them for more than a year and have some running for more than 5,000 hours now.

Not quite 50000 hrs ..

 

[GARRIGA]

Efficiency and lifespan aren't (weren't) good.
Any UV LEDs have this issue

Ultraviolet UV-C 275nm Seoul Viosys LED Module

Based on Q/A that expected life span was 30,000 hours before 20% drop off. I'm not versed in LED but isn't that more cost effective than typical 10,000 for bulbs?

I'm interpreting that wattage output of 1.45w would mean equivalent to a 25w Pentair that only outputs 8w UV-C then you'd need 5 of these. Could be way off and lighting not even remotely my forte.

 

[oreo54]

Based on Q/A that expected life span was 30,000 hours before 20% drop off. I'm not versed in LED but isn't that more cost effective than typical 10,000 for bulbs?

I'm interpreting that wattage output of 1.45w would mean equivalent to a 25w Pentair that only outputs 8w UV-C then you'd need 5 of these. Could be way off and lighting not even remotely my forte.

They have been working on high energy uvleds for awhile
I can't exactly speak for it currently but the market will determine when they are able to replace old tech.
The viosys I posted was spec'd at 200mA @ approx 6v = 1.2watts. 200% of relative radiant flux which appears to be 11.5mW or .0115 W
Afaict that's 23mW of actual UV ( 200% of relative radiant flux ).
2% efficiency.
Think that's right

Your 8 w if like the 23 w (23 produces 5w or 22% efficiency) 8 x .21 = 1.68w.
You would need 73 of them.
Seems crazy. I may have made an error somewhere.

3-6% here:

The Role of Wall Plug Efficiency in UVC LED Technology - Crystal IS

In the realm of water disinfection, UVC LEDs have emerged as a promising solution for effectively eliminating harmful pathogens. In fact, we recently announced that Amway selected Crystal IS’s Klaran UVC LEDs to treat and disinfect water in its new eSpring™ Water Treatment System. However, even...

www.cisuvc.com

 

[oreo54]

Funny the above company tested their LEDs for up to 10000hrs but THIS is what they give you? Stars at 300 and 1000hrs.

After 300 hours, 99.5% of the 50,000 two-LED engines have better than 75% of the initial power, and 99.5% of the 50,000 30-LED engines have better than 95% of the initial power. After 1,000 hours, 90% of the 50,000 two-LED engines have better than 70% of the initial power, and 99.5% of the 50,000 30-LED engines have better than 72% of the initial power.

For " fun"...

2022 State of the Industry: UV-C LEDs and Their Applications - UV Solutions

By Rich Simons, Ph.D.; Oliver Lawal; and Jennifer Pagán, Ph.D., AquiSense Technologies This article presents a view of the UV-C LED device and systems market from a system manufacturer perspective and includes current deployment of the technology that may not be presently in the public sphere...

uvsolutionsmag.com

modern UV-C LEDs are available at volume pricing on the order of 0.1 USD/mW (ref: LEDs magazine, 2020), a marked improvement on early devices (~1000 USD/mW).

Though some devices on the market still experience rapid degradation over the course of hundreds of hours, several devices have been demonstrated to achieve L80 performance in the 10,000+ hr range whilst operating in real-world conditions (e.g. commercial lamp platforms, high drive currents, non-climate controlled environment).

 

[taricha]

Yeah, last time I popped into a discussion on this, I said it would be decades before UV-C LEDs that anyone could afford would have enough punch to do much sterilization.
Then I saw what people were actually doing. It's much closer than that. A few years to go, but nearly there.

 

[GARRIGA]

Seems LED still a ways out but do these CCFL show any promise as advertised because I'm getting confused as to this specific bulb technology being deployed by Fluval having said 100% UV-C or not. Due to how compact they are would make plumbing much easier and supposedly longer useful life according to Fluval. Haven't seen them provide any proof of any of their claims. Not that they haven't. Just not seen by me.

 

[taricha]

do these CCFL show any promise as advertised because I'm getting confused as to this specific bulb technology being deployed by Fluval having said 100% UV-C or not.

I haven't actually seen any side by side spectral comparison between cold cathode and normal fluorescent UV-C bulbs showing the spectrum over the range of Interest in order to make the sort of comparison to say that one is far more efficient than the other.
Maybe @oreo54 has seen something that shows the goods.