Chaeto Test Part II: Closing out the old and introducing the next evolution! | BRS Investigates

[randyBRS]

I wonder if co2 can be a limiting factor in some of these setups. People actually dose co2 in grow rooms and in planted tanks to encourage growth.

I would be more concerned with how much effect the CO2 would have on my overall tank pH. Granted, we did find the pretty significant pH increase from the O2 produced in this testing environment, on a real world application like a reef tank, the CO2 may drive pH down more than the refugium raises it. It is definitely an interesting concept to test out! I'd be excited to know what you find, if you end up trying it out!

-Randy

 

[JamesP]

I would be more concerned with how much effect the CO2 would have on my overall tank pH. Granted, we did find the pretty significant pH increase from the O2 produced in this testing environment, on a real world application like a reef tank, the CO2 may drive pH down more than the refugium raises it. It is definitely an interesting concept to test out! I'd be excited to know what you find, if you end up trying it out!

-Randy

My chaeto ball gets here wednesday then its at least 76 days in the qt to make sure it is ich free and contains no uninvited guests like aiptasia. You guys made chaeto hard to find local right now with your cool videos lol. After that I should already have my sump reconfigured for a refugium. So Im a few months out, but once im up and running i plan on first seeing the effects with just chaeto.

After I get an idea of how it is performing I plan on unplugging my skimmer airline that runs outside to see the effects of the extra co2. My house is always 700-800ppm or lower co2 because of a mechanical damper i installed and it is 400ppm outside. I dont see myself actually dosing co2 but it would be interesting to see if i even need the external airline anymore. Only time will tell.

 

[SantaMonica]

Nice testing, I wish I could make such good videos.

And as I said on the youtube, it helps convince people that algal filtration needs red light, and it also makes the water clearer. Most people think the opposite.

Chaeto is a good starter macro. And yes, the surface area of the chaeto is what is giving the bacterial surface needed to nitrify.

Also, yes carbon is usually limiting, especially in high algal growth systems like attached hair algae, but sometimes also in slower growth systems like chaeto. When algae grows fast, it can't get enough carbon from the dissolved CO2, so it starts consuming alk. Alk will start to drop, in some cased 1.0 point per day, in high algal growth systems. That's why CO2 is injected into planted tanks.

Ammonia/ammonium is algae's go-to source for nitrogen. Algae does not need nitrite or nitrate; they take more effort to get to the carbon. Ammonia is simple. However most reefers are not used to seeing or dealing with ammonia/ammonium, because of the built-in nitrification of their rock, etc. In the chaeto test tanks, ammonia would spike a month or so after the addition of food to the water, as the food decays (cycles).

The next test, including fish, will change that. When fish eat, they produce instant ammonia/urea, which feed algae directly. So a big feeding one day can cause massive algal growth the next day, instead of having to wait a month. Attached green-hairs will consume the most, but on a chaeto tank like these, the chaeto will absorb it in a few days.

For some fun, you can put an air bubbler beneath the chaeto and watch what happens over the coming days and weeks, especially after a big fish feeding. It's a filtration science experiment, and BRS test, all rolled into one.

 

[beaslbob]

I know this kind of goes against what reefers are commonly told but the glass is often enough surface area. That said we also ran an air driven sponge filter on the tanks. I did test for ammonia from time to time but not nitrite. Related to that I think there are a lot of people that suspect that cheato actually prefers ammonia over nitrate as it's nitrogen source. We have been thinking about methods of identifying if that is true.

put a seachem ammo dot in there and add ammonia. Just a thought.

worth my usual .02 (ppm LOL)

 

[beaslbob]

After reading the posts following the one above I responded too, I again want to thank brs and the hobbyists who have kept an open mind and are adding chaeto to their systems.
While it is kinda like old school coming back into style, I hope you will find the balance and stability (and not necessarily constant) environment beneficial to the aquarium.

 

[bif24701]

After reading the posts following the one above I responded too, I again want to thank brs and the hobbyists who have kept an open mind and are adding chaeto to their systems.
While it is kinda like old school coming back into style, I hope you will find the balance and stability (and not necessarily constant) environment beneficial to the aquarium.

I think it's great that BRS has helped reinvigorate a more natural filtration method. This will in the long run help us all as it will reduce dependency on more costly and time consuming methods and help newer reefers find success more often this expanding our hobby. All good things!

 

[JamesP]

Do you need a heater for chaeto if it is in quarantine by itself? My heaters are in use elsewhere for 6 more days and just got my chaeto today. Im thinking it will be ok for a few days, maybe the heaters are not needed at all though.

 

[bif24701]

Big update!

I've had my huge grow light on the cheato for only 5 days! My PO4 is stable at .03, which is down from .10! My NO3 is 4-8ppm, down from 20ppm! dang! I mean dang!

I want to add that my skimmer is set to skim extremely dry due to treatment for bryopsis.

The cheato has at least doubled in size, pH has been very stable. No new algae in the display, also possibly use to the bryopsis treatment. All I can say is that a more powerful light can make cheato so efficient that it can alone preclude the ned for GFO/NO3 reducing media and/or additives.

 

[SantaMonica]

Yes, algae is what filters the ocean, reefs, lakes and rivers.

 

[slockhart98]

I've never been able to grow chaeto. Since I upgraded from a 28G JBJ nano to a Redsea Reefer 170 and watching this series, thought I'd give it a shot again. Went ahead and bit the bullet on the Kessil H380 and installed this weekend. Got a nice size ball of chaeto in there too. My main goal is to get the phosphates down. Haven't been able to get that down at all. All my other numbers are great. Keeping my fingers crossed with this. I will say, the H380 does give off a cool glow at night in the cabinet ;Smuggrin

 

[dangros]

@slockhart98 any improvement?

 

[boozeman27]

Following with interest. Very curious to hear more about this too

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/mbr157-macroalgae-reactor-skimz.html

 

[slockhart98]

@dangros I haven't see much improvement yet with the phosphates. But I can say, I am seeing growth with the chaeto. It's only been a couple of days so I'm hoping to see better results by the end of the week.

 

[rbraunberger]

The high par light is going to support growth of any algae in the fuge including hair algae. We had the same issue on the BRS160 for a couple weeks and found just cleaning off the hair algae manually for a couple weeks priovided enough time for the cheato to become the dominant algae in the fuge and hair algae hasn't been an issue since. We also had the same issue and results with one of the early versions of the cheato test.

@Ryanbrs @randyBRS

My chaeto is growing very quickly with the H380, but I have started to get the hair algae growing on the chaeto! Did you run into this at all? How did you clean the chaeto off, or should I just remove all the chaeto with hair algae on it? Thanks guys!

 

[SantaMonica]

That is funny, but it does happen quite a bit. If you let the HA stay attached, it will out-compete the chaeto and kill it.

 

[randyBRS]

@Ryanbrs @randyBRS
My chaeto is growing very quickly with the H380, but I have started to get the hair algae growing on the chaeto! Did you run into this at all? How did you clean the chaeto off, or should I just remove all the chaeto with hair algae on it? Thanks guys!

Hey there!

Yep, we ran into this on the BRS160 when we first setup it's refugium as well as during this first BRStv Investigates test. I think it was in our first update video, for the chaeto test, that Ryan talked about how we manually removed the hair algae, blended it, and added it back to the testing tank. (The only reason we blended and added it back in was for the consistency of the test.)

We were using a 24/7 lighting schedule when we noticed hair algae out competing the chaeto in the BRS160. We ended up cutting the lighting schedule to 12hrs, manually removed as much hair algae as possible, and eventually the chaeto took off. We also realized that starting with a fairly large ball of chaeto really helped to ward off hair algae to begin with.

-Randy

 

[rbraunberger]

Hey there!

Yep, we ran into this on the BRS160 when we first setup it's refugium as well as during this first BRStv Investigates test. I think it was in our first update video, for the chaeto test, that Ryan talked about how we manually removed the hair algae, blended it, and added it back to the testing tank. (The only reason we blended and added it back in was for the consistency of the test.)

We were using a 24/7 lighting schedule when we noticed hair algae out competing the chaeto in the BRS160. We ended up cutting the lighting schedule to 12hrs, manually removed as much hair algae as possible, and eventually the chaeto took off. We also realized that starting with a fairly large ball of chaeto really helped to ward off hair algae to begin with.

-Randy

Thanks. I run my refugium light opposite my radions, so lighting currently is about 12 hours. I removed as much hair as I could from chaeto. Time will tell. Thanks

 

[don_chuwish]

I don't even remember where I got the light, eBay seller I'm sure, but it certainly grows chaeto and I don't remember spending more than $40 on it. Got the 'clean chaeto' from AlgaeBarn:

April 20th, just put in:

April 24th:

 

[Goubli]

I finally got my chaeto ball in a few days ago. I'm currently going through initial diatoms and algae bloom, so I'm curious to see how it works out. My Tunze submersible light arrives in 2 days so I expect to see improved growth then.

 

[beaslbob]

Hey there!

Yep, we ran into this on the BRS160 when we first setup it's refugium as well as during this first BRStv Investigates test. I think it was in our first update video, for the chaeto test, that Ryan talked about how we manually removed the hair algae, blended it, and added it back to the testing tank. (The only reason we blended and added it back in was for the consistency of the test.)

We were using a 24/7 lighting schedule when we noticed hair algae out competing the chaeto in the BRS160. We ended up cutting the lighting schedule to 12hrs, manually removed as much hair algae as possible, and eventually the chaeto took off. We also realized that starting with a fairly large ball of chaeto really helped to ward off hair algae to begin with.

-Randy

sound almost like my repetitive advice for cyano and algae. Kill the lights then adjust to the good stuff (in this case chaeto) thrives but the bad stuff (hair algae) dies off.

my .02