Frog fish ownership

[chair]

A couple of things I'm hoping the r2r community can help me answer...

1. A reputable source for buying frogfish online

2. The most ideal water parameters or unique things I should be doing for my frogfish tank (Temp lighting MG etc)

3. Feeding amount, diet variation and supplementing

4. Can I pair my frogfish, and if so which species of frogfish should I go for...

5.Any helpful tips from previous or current owners would be greatly appreciated

I am currently new to this hobby with a newly cycled tank (32.5 fluval curved tank with 2 Ai 16 reef lights with 2 clowns at the moment and frag of frogspawn)

 

[chair]

interesting stuff I found out....
I did some further research in some species the female frogfish (pelagic spawners) develop eggs (maybe dependent on temp change) and when she's close to releasing her eggs releases pheromones into the water to attract a male. which then the male will fertilize the eggs when it is released. Although there isn't any videos of smaller warty or pygmy frogfishes spawning... at least that I could find. But i did find that they do spawn the same way in pictures. Potentially I could introduce a male after I notice the swelling of the female frogfish.

here's a documentary on it if your interested.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

An interesting idea.

If you could figure out how to induce spawning in the females (as demonstrated by the presence of eggs) you could figure out which are male and which are female and pretty much avoid any chance of cannibalism by only pairing them when it's time to spawn.

If they're spawning (similar to tuxedo urchins) is triggered by a temperature change (be that a sudden dramatic shift or a long and steady shift - both of which could be tested for with relative ease), it could actually prove fairly easy to get them spawning consistently. If it's triggered by something else (some species of intertidal invertebrates, for example, have spawning induced by the height of the waves in the tide) or by a number of different factors, however, it would be much more difficult.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any info about seasons or water conditions related to their spawning, but temperature seems to be as good a place to start as any. Again, if you can get any information about diet and water conditions from people who have had frogfish spawn in their tanks, this could potentially narrow the range of possible triggers for spawning, but - barring that - temperature seems like a solid place to start to me.

 

[megrim]

Just to add to the conversation, there are some tank-sized frogfish species that don't have a larval stage at all and hatch as fully formed miniatures of the adults. The eggs are carried by the parents rather than free-floating rafts. There's a place in Germany breeding Marble-Mouthed Frogfish, (Lophiocharon lithinostomus), I'm sure there's more but that's all I remember off the top of my head.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Just to add to the conversation, there are some tank-sized frogfish species that don't have a larval stage at all and hatch as fully formed miniatures of the adults. The eggs are carried by the parents rather than free-floating rafts. There's a place in Germany breeding Marble-Mouthed Frogfish, (Lophiocharon lithinostomus), I'm sure there's more but that's all I remember off the top of my head.

Yeah, Lophiocharon lithinostomus, Lophiocharon trisignatus, Phyllophryne scortea, Echinophryne crassipina, Histriophryne cryptacanthus, Histriophryne bougainvilli, and Rhycherus filamentosus are the ones I'm aware of that follow that or a similar pattern. They can be more difficult to come by here in the States, but they would definitely be easier to raise. The Marble-Mouthed ones come up every now and then here that I've seen, but they're definitely less common than Antennarius spp. or Histrio histrio (the Sargassum Frogfish). Would be a great find for someone looking to breed an easier angler species though!

 

[chair]

Update....

I got my hands on my first frogfish! about a week ago

I'm pretty sure he is a painted frogfish pictures below... he has changed from maroon red to more of brownish with red spots

Also some questions for the R2R community if you guys could just clarify on what I SHOULD feed my frogfish and what I SHOULDNT be feeding my frogfish. So far I have been feeding him damsels and supplementing them before feeding him. He seems to like them. I'm very wary about using ANY freshwater feeders due to potential nutritional issues. Should I be concerned?? Any feed back would be apricated greatly. Also if anyone would know what age do you think he would be for a painted, and what you think painted lifespan might be specifically..?


I'm willing to take any questions as well ask away

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

lion king (the resident predator expert here on Reef2Reef) has some great write ups on what to feed and you can find them by searching for his threads - the gist of it is to feed ghost/grass shrimp (Palaemonetes spp.), guppies, and mollies. All of these are technically brackish, but they can be (and are) bred and raised in marine conditions too (I have a write up explaining generally how to culture the ghost shrimp in marine conditions here on Reef2Reef*).
*My write up:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/culturing-marine-grass-ghost-shrimp.915793/

Ghost shrimp are (from all indications that I can find) highly nutritious for most predators (in fact, researchers have successfully raised five consecutive generations of the Common Cuttlefish, Sepia officinalis, exclusively on ghost shrimp** - including using the ghost shrimp larvae as the first food for the cuttlefish), so I'd guess they should probably make up the bulk of the diet, but I'd guess supplementing with guppies and mollies would probably be wise. Gutloading the shrimp prior to feeding them to the angler would also probably be wise. I'm not entirely sure how often you should be feeding them, but lion king recommends feeding on a gorge/fast schedule, so I'd look at that for guidance, as he's had some really good success with keeping predators.

**My reference below:

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/50248812/Effects_of_Using_Live_Grass_Shrimp_Pala20161111-25472-e0jfaz-libre.pdf?1478863489=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DEffects_of_Using_Live_Grass_Shrimp_Palae.pdf&Expires=1655781333&Signature=R2zMgGne25LtQ~189xX6IupFDbySji~FFo6XSxLwqKLQRlNjCvOxswFF0pMFlpVCEjRnavmrGoVx505l0KpNEQig9u5N27kyZGd208p909fS3iJSdV8LAmjEJ1hmfu54WXWxS8VLK~cb0olnVOoMgUe-7dRk9IKFrXEETA0XvNlWkxcfiRdXkGJJpmsvpL~VJ437uj72ME-ghNfpdT757Vc0y8SJztZlTmVn74-aLAGJ7Cczn3L5LxUscE~62cSC-Mtx7VmEZ9tPGPuCJeO8wvh6FHmOQqXqrPjQlLN9tZpjr3a9oMWKpBkogr~aW5iq96VHNZ3ceJ3bZCcIu3qIIg__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA

 

[chair]

Thank you @ISpeakForTheSeas Your aquaculture experiment will help me a bunch although some of the links are not working for me for example the first one the other on I had to search through the R2R search bar. I am def Going to start aqua culturing my own feeders shortly Thank YOU again!

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Thank you @ISpeakForTheSeas Your aquaculture experiment will help me a bunch although some of the links are not working for me for example the first one the other on I had to search through the R2R search bar. I am def Going to start aqua culturing my own feeders shortly Thank YOU again!

Well, it's just something I compiled by looking through the research of others, so I can't rightfully claim it as my experiment (though I do intend to culture these guys myself in the future), but I hope it helps! Let me know how it goes once you've started.

 

[Franco1024]

I am glad I found this thread. In my experience I created a display sump and I have only the frog fish in there. Apparently I have a species that is going to definitely outgrow the place it's in now so time to look for a new tank for him/her. I feed a mix of live and frozen he seams to do fine with both. I feed every other day frozen and I keep live food for it to hunt as long as it will last and restock once a week if needed. For frozen I use krill, silversides and jumbo mysis. For live I use the cheapest damsels and chromis I can find. I used guppies once but I read that freshwater fish would not be as nutritious as saltwater fish for it. I tried and took my time to acclimate black mollys to the saltwater but he ate them in 1min and my 6+ hours of work to acclimate them was not worth it. Lol I have managed to keep it alive for over 3 months now this is my first dip into predator fish. I got him small about 3inches and now it's grown a lot in time i have had it. I will post a couple pictures later on when I get home. Or if I can get the wife to send me a picture while i am at work i can post sooner.

 

[chair]

Quick update on my frogfish setups!
I now have 4 tanks with 2 being my feeder tanks mollies and ghost shrimps. Both Running fresh water, with 1 tank having 10 mollies 2 males 8 females. The other 60 ghost shrimp. Other wise still have my 32.5 gallon Fluval flex for marine with my painted frogfish doing well eating every 4-5 days 1 decent sized Mollie. In my other smaller frog fish is in a 10 gallon Nuvo tank and has been eating 4-5 ghost shrimps every 4-5 days. I still don't know what exact species of frogfish it is yet. if anyone can help identifying it would be awesome will post pics below. LMK if anyone has any questions about my tank or feeding regiment. Any addition advice or info is always appreciated !

Frogfish identification site @lion king @ISpeakForTheSeas @Franco1024 @GK3

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

For ID help you’ll probably need some more pictures (full length side shots and clear close up shots of the bait and lure are particularly helpful). Here’s a link with a ton of useful info for ID’ing these guys that might help too:

Frogfish / Anglerfish (Antennariidae): Characteristics - Frogfish Terms - Esca and illicium - Tips for the identification of frogfishes. With illustrations and photos

Frogfish (Antennariidae): Characteristics - Frogfish Terms - Esca and illicium - Tips for the identification of frogfishes. With illustrations and photos

www.frogfish.ch

 

[chair]

Weird thing popped up in my reef tank near my frogfish can anyone help identify it? it appears to be dome shaped and almost see thru white. looks different from his normal poops. I'm stumped,

@lion king @ISpeakForTheSeas

 

[lion king]

Weird thing popped up in my reef tank near my frogfish can anyone help identify it? it appears to be dome shaped and almost see thru white. looks different from his normal poops. I'm stumped,

@lion king @ISpeakForTheSeas

The only thing I could think it may be in association with the frogfish, is poop. I have seen various shades and textures of poo. Sometimes gel like and translucent to various colors likely influenced by the color of fish being fed. I'm not sure if eating alot of ghosties might influence a gel like poo, if he has been eating ghosties. While I haven't seen a negative correlation with a gel like poo, I also have not seen it as a chronic condition. If you see it repeated I wouldn't dismiss a digestive issue. It is a reef correct, so are you testing and keeping your mg at reef level or above, mg is good for digestion. Also not feeding saltwater fish, as they could pass intestinal worms or parasites.

Perhaps it's something to do with another aspect of the reef. Does it appear to be live, or could it be a sponge, it could have dislodged or moved from another area and just hapoened to be by the frogfish.

 

[chair]

The only thing I could think it may be in association with the frogfish, is poop. I have seen various shades and textures of poo. Sometimes gel like and translucent to various colors likely influenced by the color of fish being fed. I'm not sure if eating alot of ghosties might influence a gel like poo, if he has been eating ghosties. While I haven't seen a negative correlation with a gel like poo, I also have not seen it as a chronic condition. If you see it repeated I wouldn't dismiss a digestive issue. It is a reef correct, so are you testing and keeping your mg at reef level or above, mg is good for digestion. Also not feeding saltwater fish, as they could pass intestinal worms or parasites.

Perhaps it's something to do with another aspect of the reef. Does it appear to be live, or could it be a sponge, it could have dislodged or moved from another area and just hapoened to be by the frogfish.

Ive been feeding him a mollie every 4-5 days orange ones. haven't feed him ghost shrimps in awhile. Could it possibly be regurgitation. it feels almost too big to be poop. also it has almost no resemblance of a fish (I have some Mexican turbo snails as well) @lion king

 

[lion king]

Ive been feeding him a mollie every 4-5 days orange ones. haven't feed him ghost shrimps in awhile. Could it possibly be regurgitation. it feels almost too big to be poop. also it has almost no resemblance of a fish (I have some Mexican turbo snails as well) @lion king

I would say. not poop. Regurgitation would usually occur shortly after eating, and you are right. it would resemble a fish. Regurgitation also usually comes from over feeding, and you are not over feeding. You don't think it could have been something unrelated that was in the tank. Otherwise how's he acting and when did he eat last.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Based on the video there, my guess is some kind of tunicate.

 

[chair]

I would say. not poop. Regurgitation would usually occur shortly after eating, and you are right. it would resemble a fish. Regurgitation also usually comes from over feeding, and you are not over feeding. You don't think it could have been something unrelated that was in the tank. Otherwise how's he acting and when did he eat last.

Noticed it 2 days after we fed him, no change in behavior. I have no clue what it could be. I only have him, corals and some snails in my tank. MG levels are 1300+, and when I was messing around with the object he came out of his normal spot bouncing his lure thinking its feeding time. And I don't think its a tunicate, it just has no appearance of life, no holes facing up. And I've found it near the frogfish

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Figured I'd check how things are going and add this link (they went into a decent amount of detail on the breeding and rearing process, so I figure it may potentially be helpful):

Marble Mouthed Frogfish bred for the first time in captivity | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

A marine biologist has captive-bred a species of Anglerfish for the first time. Christian Göbel of Deltec GMBH obtained, spawned, and successfully raised the Marble Mouthed Frogfish…

reefbuilders.com

 

[lion king]

Figured I'd check how things are going and add this link (they went into a decent amount of detail on the breeding and rearing process, so I figure it may potentially be helpful):

Marble Mouthed Frogfish bred for the first time in captivity | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

A marine biologist has captive-bred a species of Anglerfish for the first time. Christian Göbel of Deltec GMBH obtained, spawned, and successfully raised the Marble Mouthed Frogfish…

reefbuilders.com

Thanks, interesting article, still a fantasy for a hobbyist, let's try and keep them alive in captivity first.

 

[chair]

Hello and sorry for not being able to respond to the latest post.(I've been very busy)

I now own to frog fish and they have been coexisting with no issues for a 2 months now. Feeding them a mollies ghost and gut loaded ghost shrimps. Recently I had them spawn!!! I am uncertain if the eggs are fertilized but I moved the egg raft to a 1.5 gallon black bucket with a heater and air stone temp at 78 degrees. Is there anyway to know if they are fertilized? I am also goin on day 3 with eggs I bought rotifers just in case. Any advice/ tips. Do think my attempt will be futile? Is there anything else that you would like to know?
@lion king
@ISpeakForTheSeas
@GK3