Green Hair algaeNo3/Po4 imbalance.

[smalltown reefer]

I have a 10 month old 70 gallon FOWLR DT with about 50lbs. of live rock and 1 to 1.5" sand bed. A 40 Gallon Cryptic sump with RedSea roller mat. No skimmer. Lighting is a full spectrum strip light on a 3 hr. Light schedule (because of the GHA).

I am sure my LR is leaching Po4 and have been battling GHA for almost 3months.
Nitrates are undetectable(API) and Po4 left unchecked will go up as high as .556(hanna). Obviously water changes isn't gonna cut it. GFO (BRS high capacity) does knock it down some, but the best I've seen while running GFO has been .023. And is only lasting about 7-10 days. Have also been doing manual removal at least once (usually 2xs) a week.

All that said I am going to need to step up my game. I am going to start Lanthanum dosing.

My question: Since this only FOWLR with only 2 clowns and 2 pajama cardinals, can I do a full dose without harming or negative effect?

My other question: Should I dose nitrates to get these more in balance and on the right track?

 

[Dan_P]

I have a 10 month old 70 gallon FOWLR DT with about 50lbs. of live rock and 1 to 1.5" sand bed. A 40 Gallon Cryptic sump with RedSea roller mat. No skimmer. Lighting is a full spectrum strip light on a 3 hr. Light schedule (because of the GHA).

I am sure my LR is leaching Po4 and have been battling GHA for almost 3months.
Nitrates are undetectable(API) and Po4 left unchecked will go up as high as .556(hanna). Obviously water changes isn't gonna cut it. GFO (BRS high capacity) does knock it down some, but the best I've seen while running GFO has been .023. And is only lasting about 7-10 days. Have also been doing manual removal at least once (usually 2xs) a week.

All that said I am going to need to step up my game. I am going to start Lanthanum dosing.

My question: Since this only FOWLR with only 2 clowns and 2 pajama cardinals, can I do a full dose without harming or negative effect?

My other question: Should I dose nitrates to get these more in balance and on the right track?

For a fish only aquarium, nitrate and phosphate concentrations seem irrelevant.

 

[smalltown reefer]

Even If overrun with GHA? The goal is a mixed reef but cannot move forward until that is under control, yes?

 

[VintageReefer]

You don’t need to do anything else

Your rocks are bound up with phosphate.
So you hit approx .55 phosphate.
Gfo brings it down to .23
And then in 7-10 days it’s back to .55?
Is this correct?

Then what do you do? Replace the gfo and it goes back down to .23 and repeats the cycle?

 

[Pistondog]

Gha must be manually removed, aided with a clean up crew.
Reducing nutrients is not effective at gha control.

 

[smalltown reefer]

Pretty much yes. I guess I am looking for a more effective alternative than $60/wk in GFO. Just do not have any experience with lanthanum. From everything I have read on R2R, it may be the more effective route and want to make sure I am not adding to my problem.

 

[VintageReefer]

Each time this happens you are reducing the amount of phosphate bound up in the rocks and sand by a small amount. We have no way to tell how much is bound up, we can only read what’s in the water and it sounds like your tank throughout its history stored enough phosphate so that the water and rocks natural equilibrium is around .55 and that’s what it wants to be at.

Removing phosphate from the water with gfo then throws off the equilibrium / balance, and the rock releases phosphate to restore it, and return to the natural .55

If you keep this process up and are careful with what food you use and how much, then you will be removing a percentage of bound phosphate from the rock and sand every week, and eventually, the rock will become depleted and will not have more to release, and then then you will have created a new equilibrium and new natural level the tank wants to run at.

This process can take months depending on how much phosphate is bound up in the rock. You can change gfo more often to speed it up, but that can get expensive. You can add macro algae or a turf scrubber - these are my preferred methods because once setup they will work forever for free, and they will directly consume phosphate from the water, or you can continue what you are doing and just wait it out.

Regardless of the method, manual removal of hair algae as it grows is also important and will help, as will a cleanup crew of snails and hermits

 

[smalltown reefer]

Ok. As I said in my original post, I am removing existing GHA 2x's a week. I will just keep doing what I am doing. Not looking for any silver bullets just trying to get a step ahead of the problem instead of a reaction twice a week. Thanks for the input.

 

[VintageReefer]

Ok. As I said in my original post, I am removing existing GHA 2x's a week. I will just keep doing what I am doing. Not looking for any silver bullets just trying to get a step ahead of the problem instead of a reaction twice a week. Thanks for the input.

You can also buy Phosguard in a big tub and run it in a phosban 150 reactor. Replace it every 4 days. The tub will last a long time and Phosguard doesn’t clump up or need to tumble perfectly like gfo does.

I switched from gfo to Phosguard years ago and find it’s much easier to worked with

 

[VintageReefer]

I use 125ml Phosguard in the reactor for my 75g tank

The 2L tub was about 30$.

2000 ml / 125ml = 15 times I can fill my reactor.

If I replace 125ml media every 4-7 days then this 30$ tub lasts
Replace every 4 days - 60 days
Replace every 7 days - 105 days

Much cheaper and it’s easier to work with than gfo

 

[gbroadbridge]

Pretty much yes. I guess I am looking for a more effective alternative than $60/wk in GFO. Just do not have any experience with lanthanum. From everything I have read on R2R, it may be the more effective route and want to make sure I am not adding to my problem.

You certainly could very carefully dose LaCl into a fine filter sock over a period of weeks, however a less risky and simpler approach would be Phosguard as mentioned above.

 

[smalltown reefer]

Ok. So now using a phosphate remover/neutralizer is ok? I am confused. Was just posted the only remedy is manual removal and CUC, no? Which I am doing (along with GFO). Just looking alternatives. LC seems to be very effective and affordable.

I guess I am back to the original question. Can should Lanthanum based products be used for Po4 removal for a newer tank with GHA and is it "safe" to livestock other than tangs (which I do not have) at a full dose?

 

[Ryan Souza]

I've seen this happen a few times and agree that is the cycle until the po4 is depleted from rocks. Have seen people go the way of macro algae, gfo, lc and all achieve the same destination. I would suggest search topics related to lc on r2r to follow protocol if you go that path.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Ok. So now using a phosphate remover/neutralizer is ok? I am confused. Was just posted the only remedy is manual removal and CUC, no? Which I am doing (along with GFO). Just looking alternatives. LC seems to be very effective and affordable.

I guess I am back to the original question. Can should Lanthanum based products be used for Po4 removal for a newer tank with GHA and is it "safe" to livestock other than tangs (which I do not have) at a full dose?

Whichever method you use is not going to make much difference to GHA - The treatment for that is manual removal and addition of herbivores.

To remove Phosphate from the water column you could use GFO or an aluminium oxide based product such as Phosguard which will bind the phosphate, or Lanthanum Chloride which causes Phosphate to precipitate which can then be captured using very fine filtration.

The least risky option is GFO or Phosguard. The cheapest is probably Phosguard.

They are all different methods to achieve the same result, which is essentially to cause the carbonate surfaces in the tank to release bound phosphate for removal from the water column.

All methods will take quite a long time.

 

[VintageReefer]

Ok. So now using a phosphate remover/neutralizer is ok? I am confused. Was just posted the only remedy is manual removal and CUC, no? Which I am doing (along with GFO). Just looking alternatives. LC seems to be very effective and affordable.

I guess I am back to the original question. Can should Lanthanum based products be used for Po4 removal for a newer tank with GHA and is it "safe" to livestock other than tangs (which I do not have) at a full dose?

Depends who you listen to

You already are using a phosphate remover/neutralizer - gfo

I explained how it works and why it will work long term if you keep it up. I also gave a cheaper alternative, should you want to save some money, and speed this up a little.

What happens with gha is as phosphate leaches from the rock, it develops into gha or fuels existing gha

You need to free up all that bound phosphate in the rocks and export it. Gfo or Phosguard will do it in time. Few weeks to few months if you stay on top of replacing the media as it gets filled.

Lanthanum is faster but more risky. Some have no issues. Some lose their fish. The dosage needs to be precise and you need to dose into a very fine micron sock or skimmer to keep it from getting loose into the tank.

If you are ok with being patient and going down a path that’s slower but no risk, then use gfo or Phosguard, continue with manual removal 1-2x a week, get some more snails and hermit, and wait it out.

You could also add some more tolerant corals - corals do consume phosphate and help. A zoanthid colony would be a great first coral to add

Now the connection between phosphate and hair algae is a tricky one. Some people see hair algae spikes when their phosphates increase.

I would focus on getting phosphate down to normal levels and keeping it there, controlling the hair algae with clean up and manual removal in the mean time, and then, when your steady in a good range - let’s say .03-.09 step back and see how the hair algae issue is coming along. It is very possible by that point your manual removals won’t be needed any more, or are greatly reduced.

 

[smalltown reefer]

Depends who you listen to

You already are using a phosphate remover/neutralizer - gfo

I explained how it works and why it will work long term if you keep it up. I also gave a cheaper alternative, should you want to save some money, and speed this up a little.

What happens with gha is as phosphate leaches from the rock, it develops into gha or fuels existing gha

You need to free up all that bound phosphate in the rocks and export it. Gfo or Phosguard will do it in time. Few weeks to few months if you stay on top of replacing the media as it gets filled.

Lanthanum is faster but more risky. Some have no issues. Some lose their fish. The dosage needs to be precise and you need to dose into a very fine micron sock or skimmer to keep it from getting loose into the tank.

If you are ok with being patient and going down a path that’s slower but no risk, then use gfo or Phosguard, continue with manual removal 1-2x a week, get some more snails and hermit, and wait it out.

You could also add some more tolerant corals - corals do consume phosphate and help. A zoanthid colony would be a great first coral to add

Now the connection between phosphate and hair algae is a tricky one. Some people see hair algae spikes when their phosphates increase.

I would focus on getting phosphate down to normal levels and keeping it there, controlling the hair algae with clean up and manual removal in the mean time, and then, when your steady in a good range - let’s say .03-.09 step back and see how the hair algae issue is coming along. It is very possible by that point your manual removals won’t be needed any more, or are greatly reduced.

Thank you for the clarification @VintageReefer.

This was the explanation I was looking for. I am not new to reefing, just haven't ever been plagged with GHA for so long and was looking for effective options to continue moving forward while fixing the cause. I will take a look at Phosguard. It does seem like the answer, rather than lanthanum and is a much cheaper option than GFO.