If you get your fish from a clean LFS do you need to quarantine them?

[TastesLikeChicken]

Dr Reef for the order I spoke of

They seem to have a lot of integrity.

 

[vabben]

Is quarantining required for all saltwater fish? Did the Georgia Aquarium quarantine their whale sharks in a separate tank before placing them in their 6 million gallon tank? Did the Monterey Bay Aquarium quarantine their first great white shark in a separate tank before adding it to their 1 million gallon tank? How come freshwater fish don't need to be quarantined? Sounds like a conspiracy to me...

I QT fish that I have bought from vendors who put their fish through a QT protocol. I think the saying is F* Around and Find Out. Before this, I did not QT my previously QT'd fish and it cost me thousands, as this "QT'd" fish wiped out my entire tank very quickly with disease.

 

[drewzaun]

If you get your fish from a clean LFS do you need to quarantine them? I got my first fish from this clean and modern (expensive) LFS and I put them straight in the main tank without quarantining them. I want to get more fish from them, but do I really need to quarantine them in copper power for 40 days?

I’m sure in 61 replies you’ve gotten your answer, but just in case:

There are highly reputable shops that advertise that they themselves always Q and even treat prophylacticaly everything before offering it for sale, and even then they still advise Q for the purchaser so take that for what it’s worth.

I never used to Q anything. Now I try to Q everything. I’ve never had an outbreak related to not quarantining and sometimes I’ve killed fish in Q that I think may have done better in the display, and sometimes I don’t Q even now, but I think it’s the best practice.

 

[Faurek]

There is no such thing as clean LFS, fish come with diseases because of contamination from other fish or water, not because the tank looks clean. Unless they treat the water quarantine is the best procedure.

 

[sally666]

Can I just add copper power directly to my main tank (FOWLR) instead? As long as I find a new home for the hermit crabs of course.

 

[kenchilada]

You either quarantine or you don’t. If you do, you have to quarantine everything or there is no point.

I never trust LFS quarantine. The LFS down the street told me its impossible to have a system without ich present, yet he claims he sells quarantined fish.

 

[sally666]

Also, how was the TV show "Tanked" able to quickly display fishes in the display tank without any quarantine?

 

[Jayden K]

Also, how was the TV show "Tanked" able to quickly display fishes in the display tank without any quarantine?

It's fake
They take the fish out after because
1. It's so much bioload for a new tank.
but
2. They didnt qt the fish yet(they might have qtd some because you do see they have tons of fish sitting in their system on hand.

 

[Reeferbadness]

Did the same and unfortunately i noticed ich on my cbb about 5 or so days in. I mistakenly trusted my lfs and I won’t be doing so again. It’s not worth it in my opinion. The only place I would considering buying a fish from and not QTing is from marine collectors (qt’d) and biota group. Luckily I’m local to marine and can avoid shipping. However, I would still put any new fish in an observation tank or breeder box in DT

Currently in a fallow period and will be QTing all fish, coral and inverts going forward for 70 days min for fish and coral
.

I never understand why people freak out and go fallow with ich. It’s almost inevitable that it will come into ur tank when u had fish. I have 2 x 200 g tanks. Both have ich ( or has it). UV sterilizer and healthy diet and most fish are 5+ years old. Ich is treatable and sustainable while fallow is an extreme reaction that will likely be compromised again at some point

 

[Scott Campbell]

Like Paul I have also never quarantined a single fish in the 50+ years I have been keeping saltwater fish. My current tank is 35+ years old and I have never lost a fish to disease. Never once even seen Ich even though I am sure I have introduced Ich to my tank hundreds of time. Just old age or the occasional death by other fish (which I am experiencing now with a group of Chromis). I currently have 24 fish.

I am a big fan of the type of aquarium set up Paul keeps. His all-natural approach is the way to go I believe. And I heartily agree that feeding the best food possible, reducing stress by choice of fish and ample rockwork, and maintaining excellent water quality are enormously important. I do, however, disagree with Paul's assertion that fish immunity is the key to success. That just doesn't seem likely to me. Exposing fish to pathogens to increase this immunity seems even slightly foolish. I certainly would not take my son to visit an infectious disease ward at a local hospital. What seems more plausible to me is that certain tanks are simply much more inhospitable to parasites and viruses. Tanks with lots of filter feeders, notably sponges, make survival much more difficult for parasites like Ich. Basically environmental immunity rather than individual fish immunity. A tank with a thriving microfauna community is, in my opinion, the best defense possible against disease. Because these are the organisms which feed on parasites, bacteria and viruses. In a tank of just fish and coral, there really is no predation of parasites and their growth and population are largely unconstrained. If you don't want flat worms to overrun a tank, bring in a wrasse. If you don't want Ich parasites to overrun a tank, fill it with sponges and filter feeders. That is a better approach in my opinion than somehow trying to boost an individual fish's immune system to deal with an unconstrained population of parasites. Or stressing out a fish in quarantine with chemicals like copper.

If you don't have a tank filled with tube worms, bivalves, sponges and such - then I suspect quarantining your fish is the best approach. But personally my advice would be to first create a more natural tank environment with a thriving microfauna and filter feeder population (like Paul's set up) before ever adding any fish. This has always worked extremely well for me. (And of course all of my fish will probably die tomorrow now that I have posted this....)

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Just like everything else in life you are going to have different schools of thought. At the end of the day you are the one that needs to decide if you’re going to quarantine or not. But keep in mind, ich if the least of your problems. Velvet will wipe out your tank in a matter of days. And fluke is no joke either as I recently found out.

 

[towels]

I never understand why people freak out and go fallow with ich. It’s almost inevitable that it will come into ur tank when u had fish. I have 2 x 200 g tanks. Both have ich ( or has it). UV sterilizer and healthy diet and most fish are 5+ years old. Ich is treatable and sustainable while fallow is an extreme reaction that will likely be compromised again at some point

This topic can go so many ways. I understand what you’re saying and that it’s “manageable”. Especially since removing the fish from the tank can be a stressful event - but I rather take that risk than enable them to be exposed to parasites. And since I’m not fully stocked, why would I want to bring a healthy fish into a tank I know is exposed? I have 7 fish in quarantine and they’re doing well - but only time will tell (and that goes for all cases in this hobby) All future fish will be properly quarantined and observed which won’t allow the parasite to get in. So no-it’s not likely to be compromised again unless I make the error myself due to negligence during qt and observation. Once fully stocked and properly treated, I won’t need to worry about ich as much since I’ll be quarantining any incoming coral etc

 

[kenchilada]

The problem with the fish whisperer magical disease free tank method is it can’t be boiled down to a practical guide everyone can follow and reliably reproduce.

Even in the 90s when I had mature tanks with real Fiji/MS live rock I wasn’t immune from disease.

Large scale public aquariums quarantine as far as I know.

 

[Tamberav]

Also, how was the TV show "Tanked" able to quickly display fishes in the display tank without any quarantine?

Fake “reality” show

 

[Tamberav]

I never understand why people freak out and go fallow with ich. It’s almost inevitable that it will come into ur tank when u had fish. I have 2 x 200 g tanks. Both have ich ( or has it). UV sterilizer and healthy diet and most fish are 5+ years old. Ich is treatable and sustainable while fallow is an extreme reaction that will likely be compromised again at some point

You also lost some along the way, no?

Any Achilles in either tank?

 

[Jayden K]

Random question for everyone viewing this thread, what's the difference between freshwater ich and saltwater ice? Biologically, or are they like mollies where it's the same thing in both?

 

[Flame2hawk]

Is quarantining required for all saltwater fish? Did the Georgia Aquarium quarantine their whale sharks in a separate tank before placing them in their 6 million gallon tank? Did the Monterey Bay Aquarium quarantine their first great white shark in a separate tank before adding it to their 1 million gallon tank? How come freshwater fish don't need to be quarantined? Sounds like a conspiracy to me...

Yes yes yes. I happen to be very familiar with Georgia aquarium protocol and they are very strict on quarantining everything !
Regardless all hobbyist should also quarentine everything. The only fish I don’t qt are captive bred that come direct from biota or BA in Bali. That’s it.

 

[areefer01]

Like Paul I have also never quarantined a single fish in the 50+ years I have been keeping saltwater fish. My current tank is 35+ years old and I have never lost a fish to disease. Never once even seen Ich even though I am sure I have introduced Ich to my tank hundreds of time. Just old age or the occasional death by other fish (which I am experiencing now with a group of Chromis). I currently have 24 fish.

I am a big fan of the type of aquarium set up Paul keeps. His all-natural approach is the way to go I believe. And I heartily agree that feeding the best food possible, reducing stress by choice of fish and ample rockwork, and maintaining excellent water quality are enormously important. I do, however, disagree with Paul's assertion that fish immunity is the key to success. That just doesn't seem likely to me. Exposing fish to pathogens to increase this immunity seems even slightly foolish. I certainly would not take my son to visit an infectious disease ward at a local hospital. What seems more plausible to me is that certain tanks are simply much more inhospitable to parasites and viruses. Tanks with lots of filter feeders, notably sponges, make survival much more difficult for parasites like Ich. Basically environmental immunity rather than individual fish immunity. A tank with a thriving microfauna community is, in my opinion, the best defense possible against disease. Because these are the organisms which feed on parasites, bacteria and viruses. In a tank of just fish and coral, there really is no predation of parasites and their growth and population are largely unconstrained. If you don't want flat worms to overrun a tank, bring in a wrasse. If you don't want Ich parasites to overrun a tank, fill it with sponges and filter feeders. That is a better approach in my opinion than somehow trying to boost an individual fish's immune system to deal with an unconstrained population of parasites. Or stressing out a fish in quarantine with chemicals like copper.

If you don't have a tank filled with tube worms, bivalves, sponges and such - then I suspect quarantining your fish is the best approach. But personally my advice would be to first create a more natural tank environment with a thriving microfauna and filter feeder population (like Paul's set up) before ever adding any fish. This has always worked extremely well for me. (And of course all of my fish will probably die tomorrow now that I have posted this....)

Would you put a clarion in there? Peppermint? Wrought Iron? Any other rare or expensive fish?

Don't get me wrong as I am a firm believer of a properly designed system and fully aware of what it can and cannot do. The only issue I take with some of these comments is that a new hobbyist isn't savvy enough understand the reason and design yet zero's in on no quarantine with plop and drop. In short fish are treated as a commodity vs a pet. Not saying that you or Paul are of that opinion just saying how I read this it can be a disservice to new hobbyist.

Hope your evenign is well.

 

[Scott Campbell]

Would you put a clarion in there? Peppermint? Wrought Iron? Any other rare or expensive fish?

Don't get me wrong as I am a firm believer of a properly designed system and fully aware of what it can and cannot do. The only issue I take with some of these comments is that a new hobbyist isn't savvy enough understand the reason and design yet zero's in on no quarantine with plop and drop. In short fish are treated as a commodity vs a pet. Not saying that you or Paul are of that opinion just saying how I read this it can be a disservice to new hobbyist.

Hope your evenign is well.

No disagreement. I would never recommend adding a possibly diseased fish into an environment in which there is no natural mitigation of parasites and diseases. In such a scenario quarantine is the only reasonable approach. And that may be the majority of reef tank situations. Or at least new tank set ups. But I still think it is best to cultivate that environment of disease mitigation with healthy colonies of microfauna and filter feeders before one starts adding fish.

Also agree that a quarantine protocol is easier to replicate and offer as an understandable guide to action.

Exposing a fish to a high dose of copper is however not without risks. And trying to maintain stable water parameters in a small tank is often a challenge. These actions can often harm or even kill a new fish aquisition. Perhaps that is an acceptable risk to protect the fish in the main tank. My experience has simply been that using organisms in nature to combat disease (or pest organisms or algae or whatever) is always considerably more effective than me trying to outwit nature.

I have never hesitated in the past to put a fish straight into the tank regardless of the value of my existing fish. I have come to trust my system and approach rather completely. Would that change if I owned a $30,000 angelfish? Perhaps. It is a fair question to ask. Would you risk a $30,000 fish dying in the quarantine protocol rather than simply immediately adding the fish to a healthy and stable tank? Especially if your existing fish are rather inexpensive? Money can always change the calculus of a decision.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Yes yes yes. I happen to be very familiar with Georgia aquarium protocol and they are very strict on quarantining everything !
Regardless all hobbyist should also quarentine everything. The only fish I don’t qt are captive bred that come direct from biota or BA in Bali. That’s it.

It is interesting that you say that. Because there is some talk going around about how captive bred fish are more susceptible to disease because they do not have a built up immune system. That could be ok I imagine if you only added captive bred fish and never any inverts or corals from the ocean or another system.