Massive Air!! My Experience with Outdoor Aeration, pH boost, & Stability

[rishma]

@bubbgee @rishma hi guys, this is kinda off topic but related. Were you guys affected by the dense marine layer/ fog this morning? If so did it change the ph of your water?

I get dense fog periodically at my house but I’ve never made a correlation. I’ll keep an eye out for it.

 

[sayurasem]

Alright, more than one hour had past and the indoor aeration test result was disappointing.

-Using the salifert ph test kit, freshly scooped tank water tested 8.0ph (the end of my peak light cycle, highest ph during the day)

-Aerated tank water in a cup tested a little darker than 8.0ph on the chart but not quite dark enough for 8.15ph.

I couldn’t do the outdoor aeration test because air temperature difference is 22 degrees fahrenheit.

 

[rishma]

Alright, more than one hour had past and the indoor aeration test result was disappointing.

-Using the salifert ph test kit, freshly scooped tank water tested 8.0ph (the end of my peak light cycle, highest ph during the day)

-Aerated tank water in a cup tested a little darker than 8.0ph on the chart but not quite dark enough for 8.15ph.

I couldn’t do the outdoor aeration test because air temperature difference is 22 degrees fahrenheit.

I am not surprised that indoor air didn’t have much impact. Your tank it probably near equilibrium with the indoor air.

I would expect outdoor air to be more impactful. Perhaps Randy can comment on whether the temperature difference matters for the test.

 

[sayurasem]

I am not surprised that indoor air didn’t have much impact. Your tank it probably near equilibrium with the indoor air.

I would expect outdoor air to be more impactful. Perhaps Randy can comment on whether the temperature difference matters for the test.

I believe 10 degrees fahrenheit difference is the limit to perform the test.

 

[rishma]

I believe 10 degrees fahrenheit difference is the limit to perform the test.

Ah ok. Open your windows and put on a jacket!!

 

[14 foot reef]

Equilibrium chart results lend me to do the aeration test of a cup of tank water

In theory I should be at 8.21 after cup of water test
my pH in a cup of reef tank water reads 7.79, so I should see about a .42 boost in an hour or so

After 90 minutes aeration I'm going to assume the pH will be around 8.2. With moving my pH probe to this cup if the Apex and Apex probe are calibrated correctly I should be reading on Apex Fusion 8.2 +/-

Equilibrium pH Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the equilibrium pH of your aquarium assuming it is thoroughly aerated.

www.hamzasreef.com

 

[14 foot reef]

Equilibrium chart results lend me to do the aeration test of a cup of tank water

In theory I should be at 8.21 after cup of water test
my pH in a cup of reef tank water reads 7.79, so I should see about a .42 boost in an hour or so

After 90 minutes aeration I'm going to assume the pH will be around 8.2. With moving my pH probe to this cup if the Apex and Apex probe are calibrated correctly I should be reading on Apex Fusion 8.2 +/-

Equilibrium pH Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the equilibrium pH of your aquarium assuming it is thoroughly aerated.

www.hamzasreef.com

After 1 hour of aeration of 450 ppm CO2
Cup of water only raised to 8.03

Help me out on this, but the only variables to come up with this conclusion are.........
#1 The pH probe and Apex are not reporting true pH
#2 The Carbonate Alkalinity is actually 4.5 instead of 7.5
#3 CO2 meters are both wrong at 465

All other variables are set ............
500 feet above sea level
Salinity 1.026
Water Temp 77

 

[rishma]

After 1 hour of aeration of 450 ppm CO2
Cup of water only raised to 8.03

Help me out on this, but the only variables to come up with this conclusion are.........
#1 The pH probe and Apex are not reporting true pH
#2 The Carbonate Alkalinity is actually 4.5 instead of 7.5
#3 CO2 meters are both wrong at 465

All other variables are set ............
500 feet above sea level
Salinity 1.026
Water Temp 77

I really don’t know. I went back and read Randy’s article that I posted at the beginning of this thread and the only thing I could come up with pH measurement error. I don’t know how likely that is. If the pH probe calibrates correctly I’ve always assumed that means it’s accurate.

I looked up the CO2 concentration of outside air and it seems like 450 PPM is a reasonable number.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello Randy, I just read your article about ph. I did not know carbon dosing impact ph. I have been using red sea nopox for the past few months. Question about adding lime to carbon a source, will it work with nopox? Or only vodka? I’ve read that nopox contains vodka and ethanol and (sugar?)

I’m currently doing the aeration test with indoor air. 8.0ph before aeration lets see what the ph will be with aeration in an hour.

It works best with vinegar, but will help NOPOX.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

After 1 hour of aeration of 450 ppm CO2
Cup of water only raised to 8.03

Help me out on this, but the only variables to come up with this conclusion are.........
#1 The pH probe and Apex are not reporting true pH
#2 The Carbonate Alkalinity is actually 4.5 instead of 7.5
#3 CO2 meters are both wrong at 465

All other variables are set ............
500 feet above sea level
Salinity 1.026
Water Temp 77

That was indoor air?

#1 seems most likely, #2 least likely, IMO.

 

[14 foot reef]

That was indoor air?

#1 seems most likely, #2 least likely, IMO.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

That was sump room ( Garage Air ) @450

Measuring 400 now same as outside air now because warm enough to open garage door. CO2 meters reading 400ppm

No difference in second test with fresh open outside air, the test maxed out after 4 hours aeration, 8.05 in the cup of water

Temp 77
1.026 Salinity
Atmospheric air 400

Per the calculator I should be at 8.26 I'm at 8.05

PH probe error ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

PH probe error ?

Either that or insufficient aeration time.

 

[14 foot reef]

Either that or insufficient aeration time.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Aerating for 4 hours with 2" aeration ball on huge air pump pulling in outside of 400ppm CO2

 

[14 foot reef]

Brand new unopened 7.01 & 10.01 calibration solution.

Apex reading 7.02 & 10.00 on the two brand new solutions before and after calibration.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[14 foot reef]

Calibration readings from Apex using 7.01 & 10.01 solution brand new unopened. Seems like we should be able to trust probe reading or am I missing something.

reading 7.02 & 10.00

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Aerating for 4 hours with 2" aeration ball on huge air pump pulling in outside of 400ppm CO2

What water volume?

 

[sayurasem]

I am not surprised that indoor air didn’t have much impact. Your tank it probably near equilibrium with the indoor air.

@14 foot reef This got me pondering. Your main tank is at equilibrium with indoor CO2. Because of the sheer size of surface area of your main display, its just absorbing indoor CO2. What if you put solid lids on the main tank to keep indoor air contact and surface agitation to a minimum?

I’ve been thinking this is my issue as well. All efforts to raise my ph by internal aeration such as protein skimmer, return outflow pointing upwards, wave maker placed 3 inches under water for violent water agitation are actually suppressing ph because indoor CO2 is so high.

Edit: As far as water cup test, yeah it doesn’t make sense. I’m leaning towards #3

 

[14 foot reef]

@14 foot reef This got me pondering. Your main tank is at equilibrium with indoor CO2. Because of the sheer size of surface area of your main display, its just absorbing indoor CO2. What if you put solid lids on the main tank to keep indoor air contact and surface agitation to a minimum?

I’ve been thinking this is my issue as well. All efforts to raise my ph by internal aeration such as protein skimmer, return outflow pointing upwards, wave maker placed 3 inches under water for violent water agitation are actually suppressing ph because indoor CO2 is so high.

Edit: As far as water cup test, yeah it doesn’t make sense. I’m leaning towards #3

My frag tank is outside in the 400ppm fresh air area has 72" x 48" surface area with water motion that a squirrel could surf across on a short board.

The surface area outside is 50% of the inside reef tank, but the sump is out side and that is 96" x 24"

So I'd say the surface area in the 400ppm CO2 area is as large as the surface area in the 14 foot reef and I would say the surface movement outside is double the inside movement

 

[bubbgee]

@14 foot reef This got me pondering. Your main tank is at equilibrium with indoor CO2. Because of the sheer size of surface area of your main display, its just absorbing indoor CO2. What if you put solid lids on the main tank to keep indoor air contact and surface agitation to a minimum?

I’ve been thinking this is my issue as well. All efforts to raise my ph by internal aeration such as protein skimmer, return outflow pointing upwards, wave maker placed 3 inches under water for violent water agitation are actually suppressing ph because indoor CO2 is so high.

Edit: As far as water cup test, yeah it doesn’t make sense. I’m leaning towards #3

Same as my issue. I was able to push indoor air through the co2 scrubbers (I used two scrubbers since I have an air pump with two outlets). It’s able to bring it up by .05 to .1 pH but nothing dramatic. Plus I use it all up in four to five days if it’s 27/7.

What worked for me is a Kalk drip through avast stirrer with apex programming to dose when it goes below 8.1 and stop at 8.12 and keep my alk under 12. I’ve seen fantastic growth so far when keeping my pH above 8.2 at peak photo period such as my sps basing which I’ve never seen in my systems before. I think using Kalk is cost beneficial in the long run, however you deploy it (via ato or Kalk drip) rather than spend on co2 media.

I still use the air pump at night when it dips below 8.1 pH. This way I don’t have to push my alk so high with the Kalk while getting my pH boost from both Kalk and co2 scrubbers.

 

[14 foot reef]

Same as my issue. I was able to push indoor air through the co2 scrubbers (I used two scrubbers since I have an air pump with two outlets). It’s able to bring it up by .05 to .1 pH but nothing dramatic. Plus I use it all up in four to five days if it’s 27/7.

What worked for me is a Kalk drip through avast stirrer with apex programming to dose when it goes below 8.1 and stop at 8.12 and keep my alk under 12. I’ve seen fantastic growth so far when keeping my pH above 8.2 at peak photo period such as my sps basing which I’ve never seen in my systems before. I think using Kalk is cost beneficial in the long run, however you deploy it (via ato or Kalk drip) rather than spend on co2 media.

I still use the air pump at night when it dips below 8.1 pH. This way I don’t have to push my alk so high with the Kalk while getting my pH boost from both Kalk and co2 scrubbers.

I dose 15300ml of Kalk through Avast K2 kalk stirrer on a reverse light timer, so dosed in 12 hours at night
Everyone should remember and consider, my system is 1000 gallons. So a little different than most people.

Nothing is explaining the 4 hour cup test with massive air aerating 10 ounces of water for 4 hours and the cup test wont get above 8.03

The 10 ounce cup maxes out at 8.03 with 4 hours of CO2 of 400 outside air being blown through with a 2" ball air stone