Palytoxin

[BeanAnimal]

It isn't a worthy discussion. It is a waste of bandwidth. This horse is dead. Stop beating it.

One could argue that would apply to almost all of the conversation here, there and everywhere.

We should close the site and… the internet and sticky the whole thing with a “search and ye shall find, there is nothing else to say” message. Then we could all just watch I Dream of Jeannie reruns and eat bacon.

 

[braaap]

One could argue that would apply to almost all of the conversation here, there and everywhere.

We should close the site and… the internet and sticky the whole thing with a “search and ye shall find, there is nothing else to say” message. Then we could all just watch I Dream of Jeannie reruns and eat bacon.

I mean there is a point and a place to discuss something. Without more scientific research there isn't anything else to say about this topic because we truly don't know anything else. The little knowledge we do have about Palytoxin was covered in the first page of this thread and the first page of the 500 threads before it on Palytoxin.

 

[Reefering1]

No. I’ll admit it. I got caught up on liquid being converted to steam, and I wasn’t considering things like fine mists from splashing.

Yes there are multiple ways for a liquid to become airborne. I admit again I wasn’t considering all of them.

Still, I never said they were harmless, or that they shouldn’t be treated with care. And I do feel they should be handled with respect and awareness.

Your ReefMat wont get you sick. Don’t lick it, bake it, or scrape/snort it.

And let the record show, I won. ;-)

 

[Reefering1]

Then we could all just watch I Dream of Jeannie reruns and eat bacon.

I'd watch that!

 

[BeanAnimal]

I mean there is a point and a place to discuss something. Without more scientific research there isn't anything else to say about this topic because we truly don't know anything else. The little knowledge we do have about Palytoxin was covered in the first page of this thread and the first page of the 500 threads before it on Palytoxin.

What are you going to do when you are old and your morning McDonalds coffee crew has the same grumpy conversation every morning?

 

[braaap]

What are you going to do when you are old and your morning McDonalds coffee crew has the same grumpy conversation every morning?

Go to Starbucks.

 

[SonOfaGoat]

These threads are important reminders for new reef keepers. There's so much knowledge to be learned in this hobby and it's only natural for things to be repeated.

When I started my first reef tank back in 2012 I purchased liverock from a local reef keeper which was full of life and also covered in aptasia and brown/green palys. These turned bright green under my lights and I thought they were wonderful. I had no idea about palytoxin, but there was an assumption not to accidentally injest anything from the tank. Over the next year or two I noticed when I handled rocks with palys or zoas my fingers would get a tingling numbness. I didnt think much about it but it was safe to say they were toxic, I just didn't know the extent of of it all.

I don't keep zoas or palys now, it's more I have 3 young kids who at times would rather drink water from dirty puddles than eat some vegetables. I know the risk is low when properly accounted for but given there's so many options for other non toxic corals it's an easy decision for me.

 

[Northern Flicker]

It isn't a worthy discussion. It is a waste of bandwidth. This horse is dead. Stop beating it.

Someone sent their whole family to the ICU in my area this summer because they didn't know about palytoxin.

But hey, I guess it's your site and you have final say on what's a worthy discussion

 

[Northern Flicker]

I mean there is a point and a place to discuss something. Without more scientific research there isn't anything else to say about this topic because we truly don't know anything else. The little knowledge we do have about Palytoxin was covered in the first page of this thread and the first page of the 500 threads before it on Palytoxin.

If this site (the first or second resource for most new reefers) isn't the place, where is?!

 

[braaap]

If this site (the first or second resource for most new reefers) isn't the place, where is?!

A scientific forum. Not just a bunch of people who think "zoas bad. palytoxin kill."

 

[MnFish1]

No.

EDIT; I supposed if you're ripping them off rocks or something like that there may be a remote possibility but I seriously doubt it. They don't just randomly release toxin into the water.

Actually - they can be released - however, likely in concentrations too low to hurt someone or they are rapidly removed by whatever filter mechanism one might be using

"Yes, palytoxins can be released into aquarium water, particularly when zoanthid corals (like Palythoa and Zoanthus species) are stressed or damaged.This can happen during cleaning, handling, or even due to environmental factors like changes in water parameters or excessive heat. "

 

[MnFish1]

They’ll only go into the air if they’re boiled, and you inhale the steam.

Or if you're fragging them, or if they are on a rock you take out of the tank and they eject water/palytoxin. however - the risk is very small.

 

[MnFish1]

To make a liquid an aerosol it typically would need to be baked, boiled or vaporized in some way

It does not need to be 'aerosolized' - it can be absorbed by the skin - with a cut, for example. The issue is not widely seen because concentrations are usually low - and are rapidly removed by filtration. People have gotten extremely sick, for example by wiping their eye with wet hands after fragging or handling rocks with zoas. Again - this is not an epidemic - many people keep zoas without knowledge of the toxin - and are not dying. But - its something to be mindful of

 

[MnFish1]

Oh yay. Another one of these threads. Don’t boil palys. Don’t lick your fingers or rub your eyes after working in the tank until you wash your hands.

/endthread

Since there are a lot of people that buy zoas without even knowing of the potential problem - it's not a bad discussion point. It is a discussion board, after all..

 

[MnFish1]

A scientific forum. Not just a bunch of people who think "zoas bad. palytoxin kill."

No one has said that. (except you)

 

[Northern Flicker]

A scientific forum. Not just a bunch of people who think "zoas bad. palytoxin kill."

No one is saying that, though. In fact, I only see people being helpful (other than you) and assaging the fears of a less experienced hobbyist.

It’s not mandatory to read and reply to every thread.

Let’s all just enjoy our palys with the respect they deserve

I always like to go back to this video by Sprung:

 

[MnFish1]

I would agree. I think anxiety starts the process. Especially if you experience for days

This article disagrees with you. Of course there are going to be people who 'think' they are having a reaction when they aren't. One of the most common reactions to palytoxins is a skin rash after putting your hands in the tank (which I have had - and never even thought it was palytoxin) - certainly didn't go to an emergency room.

Palytoxin-Containing Aquarium Soft Corals as an Emerging Sanitary Problem - PMC

Palytoxin (PLTX), one the most potent marine toxins, and/or its analogs, have been identified in different marine organisms, such as Palythoa soft corals, Ostreopsis dinoflagellates, and Trichodesmium cyanobacteria. Although the main concern for ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[twentyleagues]

Someone sent their whole family to the ICU in my area this summer because they didn't know about palytoxin.

But hey, I guess it's your site and you have final say on what's a worthy discussion

Any idea as to what actually happened? Were they fragging them or trying to kill them or were they just in the tank? This is the part that is very important and usually left out of the story. I have seen one of these stories that they admitted to boiling the rock causing the entire household to become ill and I believe the dog died from drinking the water that was left within reach when the family went to E.R. But that is the only one I have seen with an explanation ( after the news article was released ) and I think it happened in the early 2000s.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Any idea as to what actually happened? Were they fragging them or trying to kill them or were they just in the tank? This is the part that is very important and usually left out of the story. I have seen one of these stories that they admitted to boiling the rock causing the entire household to become ill and I believe the dog died from drinking the water that was left within reach when the family went to E.R. But that is the only one I have seen with an explanation ( after the news article was released ) and I think it happened in the early 2000s.

Here’s the story: https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilt...cle_3d5b6f13-637d-5b2d-86c3-cdd614ba7b08.html

“The idea was to take everything out of the aquarium and start from scratch to get rid of the algae outbreak,” he said. “That’s why I used vinegar, because I really wanted to give it a complete reset, which takes time.”

"He said he poured vinegar into his tank at about 6 p.m. While he believed it was empty, still concealed within the aquarium’s sand bed were a handful of palythoas, which, after interacting with the vinegar, started to bubble and spew out particles of its odourless poison into the air.

By 9 p.m., Evans came down with what he called bronchitis-like symptoms, including a heavy chest. Within a half-hour, his husband, Chris Stewart, followed suit with convulsions and trouble breathing. His dogs set off the final alarm bell shortly thereafter, with the four of them shaking and one having difficulty holding up her head."

Here's a pic. I never trust palys that look like this, although I have no way of really knowing:

 

[MnFish1]

Here’s the story: https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilt...cle_3d5b6f13-637d-5b2d-86c3-cdd614ba7b08.html

“The idea was to take everything out of the aquarium and start from scratch to get rid of the algae outbreak,” he said. “That’s why I used vinegar, because I really wanted to give it a complete reset, which takes time.”

It should also be mentioned that palytoxin can also concentrate in algae/dinos and other things that can aerosolize when a tank is 'cleaned'