Phosphate vs Phosphorus

[Reefahholic]

H

Hi ,
I use the H1736 Phosphorous ULR which measures ppb and use the H1736 reagent . Is this the one you use and what is your target phosphate level as per the chart posted .thanks Bill

Yes sir, that is the one. I used to run ULN, but as you can see what happened above there is not much room for error unless you’re doing something like Zeovit. The corals get well fed, and are able to tolerate the very low PO4. Now, I try to keep it 0.03 to 0.2 ppm. Above 0.2 and there’s more algae to deal with, but it depends on the tank and the system. I’m ok with it in that range and I try not to chase it too much. Honestly I like it above 0.05 and under 0.15, but if it drifts a little I’m okay.

 

[J1a]

It would be great If some labs offee LC+ICP-MS to properly quantify organic phosphates.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It would be great If some labs offee LC+ICP-MS to properly quantify organic phosphates.

I've not seen any general trend for P by ICP (total P) to be higher than what folks measure by kit (inorganic P), so my expectation is that it is pretty low.

 

[J1a]

I've not seen any general trend for P by ICP (total P) to be higher than what folks measure by kit (inorganic P), so my expectation is that it is pretty low.

Isn't icp-os prone to interference when it comes to p? Could they have kind of take the short cut and calibrate it to inorganic kits?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Isn't icp-os prone to interference when it comes to p? Could they have kind of take the short cut and calibrate it to inorganic kits?

I do not know.

Christoph noted here that iodine and phosphorus are close at one spectral line, but I do not know if it causes significant interference in P, or whether other lines are used for P.

ICP test - high iodine?

I usually perform an ICP test every 3 months on my aquariums. This time around both, my 210 gal and 65 gal RSM showing high levels of IODINE. I know that it is difficult to test for Iodine and I do have a Salifert kit and it is actually showing "0" - so not sure what to make of this or if...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[J1a]

I do not know.

Christoph noted here that iodine and phosphorus are close at one spectral line, but I do not know if it causes significant interference in P, or whether other lines are used for P.

ICP test - high iodine?

I usually perform an ICP test every 3 months on my aquariums. This time around both, my 210 gal and 65 gal RSM showing high levels of IODINE. I know that it is difficult to test for Iodine and I do have a Salifert kit and it is actually showing "0" - so not sure what to make of this or if...

www.reef2reef.com

Seems that there maybe many possible interfence if this write up is accurate.

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[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Seems that there maybe many possible interfence if this write up is accurate.

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The hobby companies are not using ICP-MS, but rather ICP-AES, so the interferences are completely different.

 

[J1a]

The hobby companies are not using ICP-MS, but rather ICP-AES, so the interferences are completely different.

Yeah. That's true.

Maybe can dig thru the NIST data base to see what are the lines available.

 

[tapeworm123]

There is no phosphorus in your reef tank that is not inorganic or organic phosphate.

The claim of that filter is ludicrous if it is exactly what you write. Phosphate is fully oxidized and cannot be oxidized further.

You cannot have and do not want actual phosphorus. It burns in air and water.

With this knowledges why does Hanna make the phosphorus test kit ? I have it and it test phosphorus and not phosphate. I dosed my tank with Seachem phosphorus and it takes time to turn into phosphate. Do you know why ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With this knowledges why does Hanna make the phosphorus test kit ? I have it and it test phosphorus and not phosphate. I dosed my tank with Seachem phosphorus and it takes time to turn into phosphate. Do you know why ?

My expectation is that it’s a marketing way to make the kit sound different and even more impressive than it is.

If the Seachem product you are asking about is Flourish phosphorous, it is all immediately detectable with any Hanna phosphate or phosphorous test kit.

Seachem - Flourish Phosphorus

www.seachem.com

 

[rishma]

My expectation is that it’s a marketing way to make the kit sound different and even more impressive than it is.

If the Seachem product you are asking about is Flourish phosphorous, it is all immediately detectable with any Hanna phosphate or phosphorous test kit.

Seachem - Flourish Phosphorus

www.seachem.com

Interestingly the Hanna ULR phosphorus checker came out before the ULR phosphate checker. I would have chosen the phosphate checker because I have to covert the darn readings every time. Oddly the reagent code is different for the two checkers but i don’t don’t know if the powder inside the packet is actually different.

 

[rtparty]

The ULR phosphorous checker has a smaller margin of error if I remember correctly. It’s the best checker for phosphate.

 

[rishma]

The ULR phosphorous checker has a smaller margin of error if I remember correctly. It’s the best checker for phosphate.

If that’s the case then I knew that all along and smartly chose the right checker

 

[rtparty]

If that’s the case then I knew that all along and smartly chose the right checker

According to Hanna, the phosphorus ULR checker has a range of +-5ppb plus 5% of reading.

The phosphate ULR is +-.02ppm plus 5%. The .02ppm translates to 7ppb.

I am sure it makes little to no difference and simple rounding errors can account for the 2ppb difference but going off specs alone, the phosphorus version is more precise.

 

[rishma]

According to Hanna, the phosphorus ULR checker has a range of +-5ppb plus 5% of reading.

The phosphate ULR is +-.02ppm plus 5%. The .02ppm translates to 7ppb.

I am sure it makes little to no difference and simple rounding errors can account for the 2ppb difference but going off specs alone, the phosphorus version is more precise.

Excellent, thank you. I promise my personal testing error swamps that precision

 

[tapeworm123]

I think they are different and it take time for phosphorus to mineralize to phosphate. Yes they show up on both test but it doesn’t read exact ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think they are different and it take time for phosphorus to mineralize to phosphate. Yes they show up on both test but it doesn’t read exact ?

This is somewhat misleading. I’ve already addressed this in the thread:

There is no phosphorus in your reef tank that is not inorganic or organic phosphate.

The Hanna phosphorus checker detects only inorganic phosphate by the same method that most hobby kits use. It just chooses to report the values in units of phosphorus (like changing from feet to inches, or reporting nitrate in ppm nitrate-nitrogen). It should correctly be called ppb phosphate-phosphorus.

It does not detect organic phosphate (most kits do not; that requires a special digestion step to break down organics), so to report it as if the answer was total phosphorus is wrong.

 

[tapeworm123]

My Mastertronic test the phos at .059 two days ago and the hanna ppb phosphorus test kit test over 200 ppb. I tested today and the Mastertronic says .061. How can this be ? The math doesn’t add up. Can you point me to factual information?

 

[tapeworm123]

I do beleave seachem flourish phosphorus does add phosphorus as a chemical and not ppm solid.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My Mastertronic test the phos at .059 two days ago and the hanna ppb phosphorus test kit test over 200 ppb. I tested today and the Mastertronic says .061. How can this be ? The math doesn’t add up. Can you point me to factual information?

Factual information about what? You want a course in phosphorous chemistry? This is the place. What do you want to know?

FWiW, one (or both) of the two tests is wrong.

Both are measuring exactly the same thing, and just reporting them with different units of measure.