preview of 800 g tank in 3 rooms

[FishTruck]

love your build thread...... so impressive! Can you tell me, did you experience any negative side effects with corals and live rock from dosing Prazipro in the DT? I’ve been tempted to do that when I have troubles catching a fish but have been warned by others not to.

I have used Prazi pro twice in 10 years. Both times I experienced an outbreak of cyano bacteria afterwards. (This also happens after I use Vibrant). In my case, it is more of a nutrient disruption than a direct effect of the drug (I think). I was successful in clearing intestinal worms the first time and flukes the second time with no loss of fish. Snails and copepods and nudibranchs are all unaffected.

I also had a couple of acro colonies RTN - but that can happen for any reason at any time.

The Cyano - I also treated with chemi-clean (once I start with the chemicals... it seems like one leads to the next!), but I am back to just routine care now.

 

[FishTruck]

error post

 

[FishTruck]

Well, here is a picture of my DIY dialysis based water change system (I took the Seavisions system offline a week ago). Most if it is a high capacity RO/DI system - built from 4.5 x 10 inch cans that I hobbled together. The part circled in red is the dialysis portion. I should be able to go 4 x as long between DI changes now (maybe.... a year???).

The parts list is similar to an automatic water changer, except for a human dialysis membrane and a flow meter / controller. The main cost is the Stenner dual head peristaltic pump. No need for a giant salt water reservoir, just a little brine bucket instead. So, other than taking up a whole wall... it is very compact - LOL.

Tank water runs through the "bloodline" in the dialysis catheter, and RO/DI water runs through the dialysate side. Both pushed into the membrane at equal flow rates from the Stenner pump.

From there, osmosis takes over across the membrane - nitrates, phosphates go out of the tank water and into the dialysate, where they then go down the drain. The other electrolytes of seawater and whatever other chemicals that are dialyzable also get lost in the process.

So... another peristaltic pump (not in the picture) pumps tank water through a 10 gallon brine bucket and slowly drips concentrated brine back into the system. This rebalances the saltwater. I check the SG weekly and have noticed a .001 per month change at most while I tweak the brine rate up and down (SG increased from 1.024 to 1.025 running the brine 24 hours daily for a month).

Free water flows from the dialysate into the tank water by osmosis at a surprising rate. Without the flow controller... the dialysis process adds significant volume to the sump while running. You can actually see water coming MUCH faster out of the product line than the waste line despite both fluids getting pumped into the membrane at the same rate. Cool! But... not what I want.

This is where the flow meters come in. By adding or removing resistance to the product line after the membrane (resistance here counteracts the osmotic forces pushing free water into the product line) - I can cause the process to add volume, remove volume, or keep it steady by equalizing the flow of tank-water and dialysate. Keeping it steady is the goal on most days. Also, I assume that the more back pressure that I add on the product line, the more of everything else that gets pushed out of the tank and down the drain.

Nitrates in the tank are showing 5 ppm, and 0 ppm in the product line (ATI kit) - while these numbers are super rough... it does seem that I am successfully removing nitrates and so, I assume phosphates too.

I can process 65 gallons of water per day, or about 2000 gallons per month (running 24 hours per day). Right now, I am running it five hours (or about 1% of the system volume per day - which I guess is about like a 1% daily water change).

I plan to get an ICP test in a month and see how things look, and also to track how much salt I need to add to maintain salinity.

The goal is to maintain near seawater numbers without adding anything but salt, not using phosban, or NoPox or anything else (besides the calcium reactor and Kalk stirrer of course).

 

[FishTruck]

Here is my first ICP result. Nutrients are much higher than the test results I get at home. Otherwise, the best test I have ever produced.

//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/0ad02428ea5e654e7d17

To deal with the nitrates of 40 and phos .13 - I goosed my skimmer by cleaning out the venturi for the first time in three years and upgraded the pump. Holy COW, I am getting about 8 gallons of nasty per week out of the tank now. That may reduce those nutrients. When I measure the nitrates at home I am getting 5 ppm???

 

[ScottB]

Here is my first ICP result. Nutrients are much higher than the test results I get at home. Otherwise, the best test I have ever produced.

//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/0ad02428ea5e654e7d17

To deal with the nitrates of 40 and phos .13 - I goosed my skimmer by cleaning out the venturi for the first time in three years and upgraded the pump. Holy COW, I am getting about 8 gallons of nasty per week out of the tank now. That may reduce those nutrients. When I measure the nitrates at home I am getting 5 ppm???

NO3 using which kit at home?

 

[NautiTang]

Old kit with reagents that have fizzled out? I've read of a fair amount of stories like this.

 

[FishTruck]

Old kit with reagents that have fizzled out? I've read of a fair amount of stories like this.

YEP! I got a new kit, salifert, nitrates are reading 20 ppm now, a 50% reduction! which I hope is correct and makes sense now that my skimmer is actually working. Old API kits, I threw away. Corals seems to be coloring up a bit.

In other news.... I ditched a MAGDRIVE 36 - which I was using to drive my skimmer (I ditched it due to extreme noise). I replaced it with a Jabao DCP 18000 (the biggest one that I can get on amazon) and the Jabao is just dead silent.

In other news... I had an MP 60 hit the floor and break. Those things are just too dang heavy and really pricey. They work great if they have a little ledge to rest on (like the bottom brace of by aquarium), but they just don't work for me when up higher. Right now, I am letting that spot be a dead spot where I can vacuum detritus.

On the wish list is a hydro wizard and an abyzz.

 

[FishTruck]

Well... these are the only abnormals from this month's ICP test. Despite pulling about 10 more gallons / week of yuck out of the tank with my skimmer (upgraded) ... Nitrates and Phosphates are still reading high. The corals are doing great and there is not much algae - so I'm not going to panic. I bought new kits, and when I measure nitrates at home... I am getting 25 (not 40).

I am considering an algae scrubber or refugium.

Overall, the trace elements and other measurables are closer to ideal than I have ever managed. So, the dialysis machine is doing great there - it's just not enough to clear the nutrients. I added 8 bags of salt last month, which would have been enough to do a 400 gallon water change the traditional way.

I have added some orphek blue bars - between that and improved skimmer action, my corals seem to be really taking off now. Some of the brown sad ones suddenly perked up, became brightly colored and started growing.

//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/53f860f9acde7365de06

 

[FishTruck]

Here is a current quick video. This is with nitrates of 40 and phosphates .41 for two months.

 

[John08007]

Curious, thought if you had a supersaturated salt solution as your brine is then you would cause a lot of the minerals to precipitate out of solution?

 

[mattgsa]

Well, here is a picture of my DIY dialysis based water change system (I took the Seavisions system offline a week ago). Most if it is a high capacity RO/DI system - built from 4.5 x 10 inch cans that I hobbled together. The part circled in red is the dialysis portion. I should be able to go 4 x as long between DI changes now (maybe.... a year???).

The parts list is similar to an automatic water changer, except for a human dialysis membrane and a flow meter / controller. The main cost is the Stenner dual head peristaltic pump. No need for a giant salt water reservoir, just a little brine bucket instead. So, other than taking up a whole wall... it is very compact - LOL.

Tank water runs through the "bloodline" in the dialysis catheter, and RO/DI water runs through the dialysate side. Both pushed into the membrane at equal flow rates from the Stenner pump.

From there, osmosis takes over across the membrane - nitrates, phosphates go out of the tank water and into the dialysate, where they then go down the drain. The other electrolytes of seawater and whatever other chemicals that are dialyzable also get lost in the process.

So... another peristaltic pump (not in the picture) pumps tank water through a 10 gallon brine bucket and slowly drips concentrated brine back into the system. This rebalances the saltwater. I check the SG weekly and have noticed a .001 per month change at most while I tweak the brine rate up and down (SG increased from 1.024 to 1.025 running the brine 24 hours daily for a month).

Free water flows from the dialysate into the tank water by osmosis at a surprising rate. Without the flow controller... the dialysis process adds significant volume to the sump while running. You can actually see water coming MUCH faster out of the product line than the waste line despite both fluids getting pumped into the membrane at the same rate. Cool! But... not what I want.

This is where the flow meters come in. By adding or removing resistance to the product line after the membrane (resistance here counteracts the osmotic forces pushing free water into the product line) - I can cause the process to add volume, remove volume, or keep it steady by equalizing the flow of tank-water and dialysate. Keeping it steady is the goal on most days. Also, I assume that the more back pressure that I add on the product line, the more of everything else that gets pushed out of the tank and down the drain.

Nitrates in the tank are showing 5 ppm, and 0 ppm in the product line (ATI kit) - while these numbers are super rough... it does seem that I am successfully removing nitrates and so, I assume phosphates too.

I can process 65 gallons of water per day, or about 2000 gallons per month (running 24 hours per day). Right now, I am running it five hours (or about 1% of the system volume per day - which I guess is about like a 1% daily water change).

I plan to get an ICP test in a month and see how things look, and also to track how much salt I need to add to maintain salinity.

The goal is to maintain near seawater numbers without adding anything but salt, not using phosban, or NoPox or anything else (besides the calcium reactor and Kalk stirrer of course).

Loving your build it's looking amazing. I was hoping you could tell us how your water treatment is working out. I don't get much life out of my filters. Where did you find all the canisters?

 

[Mjl714]

Wow, just got through your entire build thread, excellent work. So many nice features. Really enjoyed the read, and that dialysis application, over the top. Thanks for the share, and keep up the beautiful system.

 

[FishTruck]

Curious, thought if you had a supersaturated salt solution as your brine is then you would cause a lot of the minerals to precipitate out of solution?

Yes. About 10-20% of the salt ends up undissolved in the brine. Based on the work of Ken Feldmen, who's article I linked - this is mostly calcium carbonate and may have the potential to dissolve slowly in salt water later or RO DI water - or not. Somehow, it does not throw off the ALK , mineral, or electrolyte balance of the tank compared to using properly dissolved salt water - but only when used to replenish dialysis loss - the brine top off strategy may or may not work out for an AWC system - I don't know. I am auditing this chemistry with monthly ICP testing, and the minerals, and electrolytes are spot on for me so far. But, I am still not sure that I am using less salt than I would to accomplish the same goals with a standard AWC system. I have only supplemented Iodine. Mg, Ca, and ALK seem to hold up just fine using a calcium reactor and kalk reactor (at a very low drip rate). Also, I am dripping in UNDISSOVLED salt slurry when I run the agitated brine. Do not try this with a smaller tank - LOL. I am getting away with this tank just because the drip rate is slow and the tank is massive.

I have both discarded the undissolved part and agitated it severely and dripped it into the tank using RO DI to try and dissolve it and salt water from the tank. With agitation, it seems to become somewhat effective again in maintaining the salinity of the tank - but - details of that are beyond me. It's just easier than cleaning it out and does not seem to hurt anything. I do worry that the undissolved calcium carbonate flying around the tank might be adversely affecting water clarity - but I have not sorted that out yet either.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/pr/index.php

Loving your build it's looking amazing. I was hoping you could tell us how your water treatment is working out. I don't get mush life out of my filters. Where did you find all the canisters?

Look for "BIG BLUE" sized canisters. BRS has them. The cans can also be found elsewhere. The refillable "pro DI" resin and refillable medial holders I had to shop around for - the one's from BRS were defective and did not fit the system. makes a huge difference in my system - as far as DI life goes - because I found out that my tap water only seems to react with the anionic DI. My TAP water is only about 140 ppm - so the pre filters last a long time, but, you could stage those with a 5 micron sized followed by 1 micron - if you are having problems with those.

 

[FishTruck]

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Update:
Everything his holding steady. I am getting good growth from most of my colonies. I added an anemone, which is growing like crazy and so far staying put.

I added an ozone reactor to help with water clarity. I am only running it for about 8 hours at night, which has taken the yellow tint out of the water and I have gotten the water the clearest I have seen it so far. I can now see across 12 feet of water and make out details of the return nozzles on the far side of the tank.

I also added a turf scrubber to help stabilize the nitrates and hopefully lower the phosphates. I has not yet started to grow any algae.

This week I am going to add an auto bypass function to my RO membranes to hopefully help extend membrane life. I just replaced them after only four months when I noticed the post membrane TDS had crept from 1 ppm to 6 ppm.

 

[emvanburen]

Just caught up on your thread. Glad things are going well. I have the Deltec reactor too. Keep the feed line / filters clean and it will save you hassles. I’ve had a bunch!

 

[Bpp124987]

This is so awesome. More fish and coral pix!!!

 

[14 foot reef]

Also, I upgraded my Manta Ray pump to a Tiger Shark. This should have increased the tank turnover through the sump by 2 or 3 x per hour. My water is still not that clear, with SO MUCH detritus constantly blowing around. I also changed by UV bulb. The result is that the water is somewhat clearer... and my fishroom and the room next to it are unacceptably noisy.

The noise is partly from the reeflo pump... but mostly from the vibration going through the outlet pipe. I tried putting a rubber connecter which did an amazing job of quieting things down. But... it was immediately bulging. I have at least 20 feet of head pressure, and those things are only designed to take 10 feet - so I had to go back to hard plumbing.

At this point - if I can't find a piece of soft plumbing that can take 10 psi or more... I might have to bite the bullet and look into an Abyzz pump.

I also lost one of my favorite colonies - don't know why. I do have frags as backups.

I did pick up a male female pair of Naso Tangs, which are just a pleasure to watch. So.... overall I have made SOME progress.

Did you try this. I'm using the 2" size on my 2 MRC 6100 pumps, no swelling and no vibration

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Part # 3184K18

 

[FishTruck]

Did you try this. I'm using the 2" size on my 2 MRC 6100 pumps, no swelling and no vibration

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Part # 3184K18

Yes, ultimately I did switch to the silicone tubing from McMaster, which did hold up against the pressure and did help quite a bit to reduce the pipe vibration. The reeflo pump is still pretty loud with air and motor noises (and still a good hummmm) from the plumbing - but much better.

 

[FishTruck]

Just spend the weekend emptying and re-drilling one of my sumps for a new system pump. The reeflo tiger shark that I installed in May of 2021 was loud and started leaking after 8 months. I realize I could have rebuilt it, but, decided that it was just not ideal and would be on ongoing headache.

I decided to bite the bullet on an abyzz 1200. Installation included draining the sump and pulling out the bubble trap baffles. I am waiting for silicone to dry before firing it up. This gave me the opportunity to wipe down the inside of the sump, clean out my skimmer and UV pump, clean all the probes and all that.

My kids don't believe me that the room will be quiet now, fingers crossed.

 

[FishTruck]

And... FAIL. The abyzz pump does not start. Just some error message which is not mentioned in the troubleshooting guide. error:0200 SERVICE!

Lovely. Time to scramble for an emergency pump while I sort this out.