Soft coral growth rate and pH

[subodhs]

I do not keep softies so can't say much but I haven’t found that higher pH consistently equals better SPS either. In my experience(this is just my observation, I may be completely off the kilter), higher pH seems to make SPS moodier - like teenagers. They might grow faster, but they often look less attractive and become more sensitive to even minor issues. If something starts going wrong, there’s no stopping the downward spiral. It's almost like you get a faster plant growth by using Miracle grow but the structure is still going to be weak, fat and limpy.

What I’ve also noticed is that pests (like algae, cyano, or dinos) seem more aggressive and multiply faster at higher pH. It makes me wonder if elevated pH in a tank is sometimes more of an indicator of nuisance species driving the ecosystem rather than a reflection of coral health.
I cutoff my skimmer, kalk and O3 at 8.4 (and switching to baking soda instead of soda ash). Seems to work well. I'm curious about the observations from others though.

 

[00W]

That’s just me being humble. I highly doubt I’ll kill my reef with my testing since I don’t go too astray. I do my research prior to adding anything.

Nice.
I like that.

 

[bakbay]

That’s just me being humble. I highly doubt I’ll kill my reef with my testing since I don’t go too astray. I do my research prior to adding anything.

All good - I was being silly! I tinker with stuff all the time as well since I’m easily bored. However, once things are stable, I don’t touch it!

Back to the topic though — I can grow SPS like weeds in one tank but cannot grow zoas (at least they don’t open wide) in my frag tank with the “typical” params being similar. Obviously something is different but I don’t do ICP tests.

 

[Miami Reef]

Nice.
I like that.

Here are some examples of some “tests” I’ve done in the past 2 years:

I tried an algae scrubber several times throughout last year= never worked for me.

I tried dosing ammonium = didn’t need it because nitrates kept going up

Played with different levels of vinegar or vodka for nutrient control and inducing bacteria.

Tried NP Bacto Balance (never dosed it more than 2 days in a row )

Used ozone at different levels and strengths (now I use it once a week and don’t go higher than 350 with fantastic results and no harm to any corals @Randy Holmes-Farley ). I went a little too high before (over 400 ORP). It didn’t kill anything, but I think it might have been a tiny bit stressful? Big maybe on that one. No losses to the acros.

Played with aspartic acid dosing (no benefit noted at all)

Dosed Red Sea AB+ (corals loved it, but stopped for the time being).

I under-dose tropic Marin A & K. I use occasional ICP to help me know if I am dosing enough.

Edit: I forgot one: I added seachem matrix to see if it’ll reduce nitrate = no effect whatsoever. I used a lot in a media bag in my sump. I was aware of the possible aluminum release, so I ensured I did ICP and water changes. It never went high and I eventually removed it.

It’s just tiny little things that I try. The most consistent thing I’ve dosed is sodium silicate. It grows diatoms and adds a little extra sponge, but nothing drastic.

 

[00W]

Here are some examples of some “tests” I’ve done in the past:

I tried an algae scrubber several times throughout last year= never worked for me.

I tried dosing ammonium = didn’t need it because nitrates kept going up

Played with different levels of vinegar or vodka for nutrient control and inducing bacteria.

Tried NP Bacto Balance (never dosed it more than 2 days in a row )

Used ozone at different levels and strengths (now I use it once a week and don’t go higher than 350 with fantastic results and no harm to any corals @Randy Holmes-Farley ). I went a little too high before. It didn’t kill anything, but I think it might have been a tiny bit stressful? Big maybe on that one.

Played with aspartic acid dosing (no benefit noted at all)

Dosed Red Sea AB+ (corals loved it, but stopped for the time being).

It’s just tiny little things that I try. The most consistent thing I’ve dosed is sodium silicate. It grows diatoms and adds a little extra sponge, but nothing drastic.

Nice.
I have read many of your posts and like what I read.
I also appreciate your honesty and you are well written and not full of B.S.
I am big into tests and experiments.
In fact I research them so much most of the time I don't do them lol.
I tried an algae scrubber too.
Didn’t work.
Reactors with de nitrate, carbon and gfo.
Tried biopellets. What a disaster that was. Hated that mess.
Tried a canister filter filled with rubble.
That was dumb.
Tried vodka and vinegar.
My yellow tang couldn't handle either.
I'm bare bottom so I have to contend with that too but at least I can siphon out the bottom.
So I've just gone back to weekly water changes, over feeding and overskimming.
Nothing has really ever changed the growth of the softies.
They grow like weeds.
My mangroves grow well too.

 

[Miami Reef]

Thank you! I appreciate your posts, too. You’re an awesome asset to this forum.

Tried a canister filter filled with rubble.
That was dumb.

That made me audibly laugh. Haha

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I tried an algae scrubber several times throughout last year= never worked for me.

Any idea why? The ATS proponents describe them like they are made of rainbows and gold.

 

[Miami Reef]

Any idea why? The ATS proponents describe them like they are made of rainbows and gold.

Maybe the carbon dosing made the plastic mesh too slick? I have no idea.

The unit I bought has the light, screen, and flow that was proven to grow algae in the advertisement photos. I made sure the photoperiod was long enough. I dosed trace elements and had more than detectable nutrients.

The growth was never good for me. It was thin, bubbly, and slimy. It was nasty, and I’d probably never do it again.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The growth was never good for me. It was thin, bubbly, and slimy. It was nasty, and I’d probably never do it again.

So no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. Lol

Did you notice any change to algae in the display?

 

[Miami Reef]

So no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. Lol

Did you notice any change to algae in the display?

Of course not. Those claims are dumb IMO.

If you have enough nutrients and trace elements to grow algae in a scrubber, then you also have enough to grow them in the display.

 

[fandaga]

My pH swings from 7.8 to 8.2 each day, even with a fuge on alternate cycle at night. My alk is 8-9.
How do you stabilize pH without changing other variables? For instance, I probably could make a smaller swing and lower pH at reduced/shorter lighting or higher pH with a longer photoperiod.

 

[Miami Reef]

So no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. Lol

Did you notice any change to algae in the display?

Let me rephrase myself with a thought-provoking question:

If someone has 2 algae scrubbers in their tank: would one cause the other not to grow?

 

[subodhs]

Let me rephrase myself with a thought-provoking question:

If someone has 2 algae scrubbers in their tank: would one cause the other not to grow?

I like where this is going. lol

 

[Imrahilwjz]

Let me rephrase myself with a thought-provoking question:

If someone has 2 algae scrubbers in their tank: would one cause the other not to grow?

Potentially

 

[bobnicaragua]

I do not keep softies so can't say much but I haven’t found that higher pH consistently equals better SPS either. In my experience(this is just my observation, I may be completely off the kilter), higher pH seems to make SPS moodier - like teenagers. They might grow faster, but they often look less attractive and become more sensitive to even minor issues. If something starts going wrong, there’s no stopping the downward spiral. It's almost like you get a faster plant growth by using Miracle grow but the structure is still going to be weak, fat and limpy.

What I’ve also noticed is that pests (like algae, cyano, or dinos) seem more aggressive and multiply faster at higher pH. It makes me wonder if elevated pH in a tank is sometimes more of an indicator of nuisance species driving the ecosystem rather than a reflection of coral health.
I cutoff my skimmer, kalk and O3 at 8.4 (and switching to baking soda instead of soda ash). Seems to work well. I'm curious about the observations from others though.

I’ve been chasing PH for a while; outside airline, kalk at night, big refugium, CO2 meter by the tank, cracked windows when weather permits.

My acros definitely color up and look better when they grow faster. They look healthier too. Increasing PH has made a huge difference in my tank.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Let me rephrase myself with a thought-provoking question:

If someone has 2 algae scrubbers in their tank: would one cause the other not to grow?

If one was in the sump, and the other in the display..,then obviously the one in the display wouldn’t grow any algae. It’s science

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I’ve been chasing PH for a while; outside airline, kalk at night, big refugium, CO2 meter by the tank, cracked windows when weather permits.

My acros definitely color up and look better when they grow faster. They look healthier too. Increasing PH has made a huge difference in my tank.

So solely increasing ph made all the difference in the world?

 

[bobnicaragua]

So solely increasing ph made all the difference in the world?

I initially noticed every time I got back from vacation my alk would be low and the corals would look great. CO2 levels would be the same as outside with no one breathing in the house.

I already had good flow, good light coverage, and good water chemistry. PH was the missing piece of the puzzle. It’s especially worth it to minimize the night time drop.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I initially noticed every time I get back from vacation my alk would be low and the corals would look great. CO2 levels would be the same as outside with no one breathing in the house.

I already had good flow, good light coverage, and good water chemistry. PH was the missing piece of the puzzle. It’s especially worth it to minimize the night time drop.

I get that. The “missing piece of the puzzle”. This is what I wish was conveyed more often. Everyday someone (typically a newbie, but not always) is posting questions on how to get that magic 8.3 (I’ve even heard one professing 8.7-8.9) number. Without having a grip on everything else, I truly don’t believe ph alone (unless it’s extraordinarily low) would make a night and day difference in coral health, growth, color, etc.. I think when people have a mature system that is fairly well tuned, yeah, going from 7.8 to 8.4 would most likely be noticeable. Going from 8.1 to 8.3? I don’t know if that would be so obvious. Maybe on a large system where an increased demand for Alk would be noticed a bit more drastically than say a nano. I’ve seen some people brag about maintaining a completely flat and stable ph at say 8.4. I truly don’t know how that’s possible in most, typical systems without wreaking havoc on Alk and/or salinity. I often read about people dosing Kalk solely based on ph, which I can’t wrap my head around. I know one person that has a grip on that by dosing super saturated brine (super salinity) to account for the drop in salinity but I think that is super, super rare.

 

[rishma]

I get that. The “missing piece of the puzzle”. This is what I wish was conveyed more often. Everyday someone (typically a newbie, but not always) is posting questions on how to get that magic 8.3 (I’ve even heard one professing 8.7-8.9) number. Without having a grip on everything else, I truly don’t believe ph alone (unless it’s extraordinarily low) would make a night and day difference in coral health, growth, color, etc.. I think when people have a mature system that is fairly well tuned, yeah, going from 7.8 to 8.4 would most likely be noticeable. Going from 8.1 to 8.3? I don’t know if that would be so obvious. Maybe on a large system where an increased demand for Alk would be noticed a bit more drastically than say a nano. I’ve seen some people brag about maintaining a completely flat and stable ph at say 8.4. I truly don’t know how that’s possible in most, typical systems without wreaking havoc on Alk and/or salinity. I often read about people dosing Kalk solely based on ph, which I can’t wrap my head around. I know one person that has a grip on that by dosing super saturated brine (super salinity) to account for the drop in salinity but I think that is super, super rare.

I’ve been playing with pH for a while on my nano and I definitely see an increase is alkalinity consumption with higher average pH. A pH change of 0.2 is pretty significant.

I don’t have soft corals so I don’t know what the impact it. I really don’t know if my LPS prefer the higher pH.

dead stable pH at 8.4? I’m sure it’s doable with a lot of effort. To keep alkalinity, etc stable it would be all about managing CO2.