The ethics of quarantining and and prophylactically medicating (or not)

[flourishofmediocrity]

There are a lot of posts lately about whether or not to quarantine, and the responses about why someone chooses to or not tend to be practical, financial, and based on previous experience. The discussion usually centers around efficacy, not ethics, and I assume everyone takes the welfare of the animals into account when making this decision. Within the context that quarantine and management both have their own risks even when done correctly, what are the ethics of both?

Why is it ethical to quarantine and prophylactically medicate for common fish diseases?

Why is it ethical to not quarantine and just manage diseases?

EDIT: These questions are not meant to solicit one's belief about which method is "better" The point of this post is to discuss what is / isn't ethical about QT'ing. If you want to argue your way is ethical and another is not, that's up to you, I'm not going to ask you to stop. I want to know WHY you think what you do. What led you to your position?

 

[Chrisv.]

Man I am so split on this one. I have quarantined fish and dumped fish into the tank. I've been very lucky but honestly I have not been burned.

I have done medicated QT, but honestly I felt that it really stressed the fish a lot. That said, I would never add a fish to a display tank that showed ANY sign of illness.

I have lost new fish in qt, but I don't think I've ever lost a new fish after putting it into an established reef...at least not immediately.

I know I probably SHOULD qt, but I do see it as a very stressful and dangerous time for a fish. Maybe that just means I should buy fish that other people have put through qt.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Observation should be primary imo. You'll get a bunch of answers I'm sure. Once a disease is detected then you can go from there. I get the treat first method but the bad thing is there's always a chance of just making the diseases resistant to treatments if not done properly. We're kind of living through that example now actually.

 

[flourishofmediocrity]

Man I am so split on this one. I have quarantined fish and dumped fish into the tank. I've been very lucky but honestly I have not been burned.

I have done medicated QT, but honestly I felt that it really stressed the fish a lot. That said, I would never add a fish to a display tank that showed ANY sign of illness.

I have lost new fish in qt, but I don't think I've ever lost a new fish after putting it into an established reef...at least not immediately.

I know I probably SHOULD qt, but I do see it as a very stressful and dangerous time for a fish. Maybe that just means I should buy fish that other people have put through qt.

Is there an ethical reason you believe you should QT?

 

[Chrisv.]

Is there an ethical reason you believe you should QT?

No. It's pragmatic, one way or another.

 

[HuduVudu]

I think that framing it in terms of ethics places too heavy of an emphasis on the aspect of "right" and "wrong".

Honestly pulling the creatures out of the ocean and putting them into a glass box might not be considered ethical no matter how well that we care for them. On the other hand these creatures are really just food in most places so is it "ethical" to collect them?

I think that the only important thing on this debate or any other is the success of failure of the system, and whether the individual aquarist is willing to follow that system or if they have a hybrid of their own. For me success is "ethical" and failure is "unethical". Truly though I don't follow this convention because it is fundamentally to simple to be of any use in the real world. Not to mention the overall implications that come in from personal philosophy etc ...

I have to say dividing this question in this way is less than constructive.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

No. It's pragmatic, one way or another.

I'd disagree. It's up to us to ethically provide the best care we possibly can for our fish. The method that provides our fish to live more often is the ethically right thing to do.

 

[Chrisv.]

I'd disagree. It's up to us to ethically provide the best care we possibly can for our fish. The method that provides our fish to live more often is the ethically right thing to do.

Perhaps. Luckily "what's best for the fish" aligns well with fish continuing to live, which is the unambiguous ultimate goal.

 

[Nigel35]

Does the ocean or any reef for that matter have quarantine protocols? Nope. The naturalistic approach is the way nature operates. Why can't we? Quarantining or not quarantining is by no means "ethical".

 

[Nigel35]

You could consider it unethical to quarantine... Subduing a fish to potentially harmful and strong treatments. Let the fish do its thing... In all honesty, you can do what you have reasoned is best. It might not be the greatest decision or outcome but you shouldn't deem what others aquarists do as "unethical".

 

[HomebroodExotics]

You could consider it unethical to quarantine... Subduing a fish to potentially harmful and strong treatments. Let the fish do its thing...

There's nothing natural about putting any fish in a box of water. With your description of ethics the only right thing to do would be to leave it in the wild. The natural way.

 

[Nigel35]

There's nothing natural about putting any fish in a box of water. With your description of ethics the only right thing to do would be to leave it in the wild. The natural way.

of course... nothing about this hobby is natural per say. But that is what this hobby is all about. Replicating a natural environment for our pets is for our enjoyment and education. Thats why the ethical aquarists will follow the known rules in the hobby. You don't throw a sohal tang in a 40g... you provide a spacious and proper aquarium for the tang to enjoy... replicating its natural environment.

 

[Nigel35]

There's nothing natural about putting any fish in a box of water. With your description of ethics the only right thing to do would be to leave it in the wild. The natural way.

On the flip side... nothing we do in this hobby is ethical. Kidnapping vertebrates and invertebrates alike and throwing them in glass boxes, could be seen as unethical. Lets just grab our clubs, hide out in caves and leave nature be.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

There's nothing natural about putting any fish in a box of water. With your description of ethics the only right thing to do would be to leave it in the wild. The natural way.

Touche! When it's my money it's my way.

 

[Nigel35]

On the flip side... nothing we do in this hobby is ethical. Kidnapping vertebrates and invertebrates alike and throwing them in glass boxes, could be seen as unethical. Lets just grab our clubs, hide out in caves and leave nature be.

But where is the fun in that... Lets enjoy this hobby and the world we live in. You only live once my friend.

 

[flyfisher2]

interesting posts. I'd like to respond with a question. Why not quarantine? Are we not quarantining because we don't want the fish to suffer? Are we keeping our fingers crossed and praying that our 'Established System' Has all the Power to counter any and all parasites and diseases that may have come from the ocean, wholesaler, LFS?
Are we just saying this because we bought this beautiful fish and we want to see this ornament in my tank now even if it' only there a couple of days!
We vaccinate our kids from the moment they are born. Are they sick? No, it's a precaution, a preventive measure. I've been guilty of dumping the fish in the display and paid the price. I quarantine and I've lost fish in Quarantine but I'd rather have Uronema in a quarantine tank and not my display tank!

 

[Nigel35]

interesting posts. I'd like to respond with a question. Why not quarantine? Are we not quarantining because we don't want the fish to suffer? Are we keeping our fingers crossed and praying that our 'Established System' Has all the Power to counter any and all parasites and diseases that may have come from the ocean, wholesaler, LFS?
Are we just saying this because we bought this beautiful fish and we want to see this ornament in my tank now even if it' only there a couple of days!
We vaccinate our kids from the moment they are born. Are they sick? No, it's a precaution, a preventive measure. I've been guilty of dumping the fish in the display and paid the price. I quarantine and I've lost fish in Quarantine but I'd rather have Uronema in a quarantine tank and not my display tank!

Couldn't agree more. Its truly up to the hobbyist. Do what you think is best, but be ready to pay the consequences.

 

[Chrisv.]

I actually think the whole script should be flipped. I think retailers have an ethical responsibility to qt fish before selling them to us. They should only sell clean healthy tank conditioned fish. I'm willing to pay the premium. I just think that hobby grade qt is often botched anyway. Sometimes that means fish die in qt, sometimes it just means that parasites still make it into the system.

But seriously, why on earth do we tolerate this level of service? As consumers we should demand better.

 

[Spare time]

There are a lot of posts lately about whether or not to quarantine, and the responses about why someone chooses to or not tend to be practical, financial, and based on previous experience. The discussion usually centers around efficacy, not ethics, and I assume everyone takes the welfare of the animals into account when making this decision. Within the context that quarantine and management both have their own risks even when done correctly, what are the ethics of both?

Why is it ethical to quarantine and prophylactically medicate for common fish diseases?

Why is it ethical to not quarantine and just manage diseases?

People who are stressing or killing fish in QT are seriously doing something wrong. It's not hard to not have ammonia, and it's not hard to keep a fish in a tank for 45 days.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I actually think the whole script should be flipped. I think retailers have an ethical responsibility to qt fish before selling them to us. They should only sell clean healthy tank conditioned fish. I'm willing to pay the premium. I just think that hobby grade qt is often botched anyway. Sometimes that means fish die in qt, sometimes it just means that parasites still make it into the system.

But seriously, why on earth do we tolerate this level of service? As consumers we should demand better.

Absolutely.