The ethics of quarantining and and prophylactically medicating (or not)

[Tamberav]

thats why it's sometimes better to not buy certain fish. I love Mandarins. Had one in observation for about three weeks. It was eating Mysis and brine, it was in the tank with a Melanarus and a Sailfin tang. All doing great! OVERNIGHT, the melanarus was at the surface gasping, the mandarin dead under a rock, the Sailfin covered in Velvet. I lost the melanarus within hours. Put the sailfin in Copper and hes almost done with quarantine.
What could I have done differently? Multiple Quarantine tanks? Dose copper from the get go? Can't use copper on Mandarins. But it didn't happen in the display so I'll keep quarantining until I can be 100% sure that the fish from 'Belly Up Imports' are not gonna kill what healthy fish I do have.

Hybrid TTM the mandarin and into a observation tank would have been my move. It is work though!! and salt..

Obviously there is nothing you can do with what happened as everything happened so fast but you saved the Tang and your DT.

I have lost more fish in observation only then treating... but my fish basically come to me a day or 2 after they arrive at the LFS. Fish sell out fast. I often kick myself for trying to do observation and letting the fish settle. However, others will have different experiences.... probably more so if they can get fish that have been at the LFS for a week or two.

 

[flyfisher2]

Ha exactly. My wife always asking me what the names of new fish are and I'm like naa well see

thats the name of ALL my new fish, "We'll See"

 

[flyfisher2]

Hybrid TTM the mandarin and into a observation tank would have been my move. It is work though!! and salt..

run that by me or give me a link please. I want to try it again

 

[flyfisher2]

But this is exactly why I too believe it needs to be in the vendors. Leave it up to the people that deal with thousands of fish a year and make millions of dollars off our money to learn how to qt or teach us how to qt. At this moment in time none of us hobbyists know what needs to be done nor have the resources compared to them.

Say tha to the hobbyist who paid $500 for a yellow tang when Hawaii closed.

 

[Tamberav]

run that by me or give me a link please. I want to try it again

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

Important: Tank Transfer Method is most effective when water temperature and salinity are kept within this range... Temp: 24C/76F - 28C/82F Salinity: 27ppt / 1.020 SG - 35ppt / 1.026 SG Tank Transfer Method is an effective (non-chemical) treatment for Marine Ich. However, it's weakness has...

humble.fish

 

[HuduVudu]

So, I don’t want to get too far into it but there is no scientific evidence that covid variants are the result of vaccination — in fact, it’s the unvaccinated driving infections. When a virus is spreading widely in a population and infecting many people, it is more likely to mutate — it’s what viruses do.

This is really not neccessary to this thread and I would hope that you remove it, because of the controversy surrounding it.

 

[flyfisher2]

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

Important: Tank Transfer Method is most effective when water temperature and salinity are kept within this range... Temp: 24C/76F - 28C/82F Salinity: 27ppt / 1.020 SG - 35ppt / 1.026 SG Tank Transfer Method is an effective (non-chemical) treatment for Marine Ich. However, it's weakness has...

humble.fish

Thanks
I did read this and it does involve work and salt
May be worth it though

 

[HomebroodExotics]

This is really not neccessary to this thread and I would hope that you remove it, because of the controversy surrounding it.

It's scientific fact bud. Nothing controversial

 

[HuduVudu]

It's scientific fact bud. Nothing controversial

This is why I am asking it to be removed.

This is going to send this thread south very very fast.

 

[Adirondackgold]

Once you get past the ethics of keeping sometimes otherwise wild critters in a glass box of relatively minutiae size, seems to me your moral compass is pretty much spent.

But I did think about this as i thought through quarantine alternatives. I hate chemicals (except for the fun kind) -- and anthropomorphize that my fish do too.

So I went with an essentially chemical free quarantine. Seemed to work -- and nobody died. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

 

[Nigel35]

It's scientific fact bud. Nothing controversial

Say that to the couple thousands that have died from becoming vaccinated... just a thought! The effective reach of the vaccine is even being put into question. It is open to discussion and is highly controversial. Keep that stuff out! It belongs in the lounge not a to q or not to q thread...

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Say that to the couple thousands that have died from becoming vaccinated... just a thought! The effective reach of the vaccine is even being put into question. It is open to discussion and is highly controversial. Keep that stuff out! It belongs in the lounge not a to q or not to q thread...

None of that is real. If we can't discuss real science here then what's the point. This is like disagreeing that copper will treat pests. It's pretty widely accepted that it will. Disagreeing with that with no proof is not science.

 

[Chrisv.]

To redirect a bit and stay semi on task, how many of you live in areas where your LFS does a full qt?

 

[Chrisv.]

To redirect a bit and stay semi on task, how many of you live in areas where your LFS does a full qt?

I ask because if I had access to local qt'd live stock there is no way I would qt myself.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

To redirect a bit and stay semi on task, how many of you live in areas where your LFS does a full qt?

My lfs is a not a good place to buy fish. I would have to drive 40 min to the city to buy decent fish and I'm pretty sure none of those will be quarantined.

 

[jda]

We have one that says that they do. Full copper. However, they sell sensitive wrasses, butterflies and the like so I don't think that they are being 100% honest about something. They also keep sand in some of their QT tanks. I don't trust them, so I isolate in my usual manner if I do get something from them.

Edit: if I had to guess, they do some copper and some hypo. ...maybe something else. However, not likely with all of the fish and likely not for as long as others would do if they were doing it themselves... like maybe a week in the back in "QT." Probably better than nothing, but who knows.

Also, if you buy fish out of the bag from your LFS, you risk less disease too. It is worth the patience to order, wait and then show up when the folks get back from the airport.

 

[Chrisv.]

We have one that says that they do. Full copper. However, they sell sensitive wrasses, butterflies and the like so I don't think that they are being 100% honest about something. They also keep sand in some of their QT tanks. I don't trust them, so I isolate in my usual manner if I do get something from them.

There is one store about an hour and change from me that does 7 days medicated with general cure and I think copper. I guess it's better than nothing. Seems like a half measure to me.

 

[jda]

I am not even joking but the best thing that you can do for healthy fish is to get some substrate, order some sand or rock from the ocean and wait for pods and critters to be crawling all over the place. In the olden days, people used to suggest that new tanks wait about a year before getting tricky fish since everything got easier about then - this is when the diversity in the tank did not allow for at-will breeding for fish diseases. Of course, this all changed with the use of bare bottom and sterile rock builds. I have no illusion that this is eradication but since I am not going to go fallow for all new corals (I have fish in my coral QTs to make fish waste for the corals), inverts and everything else, I have no chance at eradication.

Then set up another smaller tank with the same type of maturity with a nice fish in it and piles of live rock for the new fish to hide and feel save. This nice fish will show the new ones how to eat things like pellets and flake and the lack of aggressive fish will allow the new ones to get used to people, eating well and all of that good stuff. I like to use YT blue damsels for this but I currently have a Chocolate Tang that seems to like the new fish, is never mean and likes to hang with them like a buddy. I kept it in there as meeter and greeter.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I am not even joking but the best thing that you can do for healthy fish is to get some substrate, order some sand or rock from the ocean and wait for pods and critters to be crawling all over the place. In the olden days, people used to suggest that new tanks wait about a year before getting tricky fish since everything got easier about then - this is when the diversity in the tank did not allow for at-will breeding for fish diseases. Of course, this all changed with the use of bare bottom and sterile rock builds. I have no illusion that this is eradication but since I am not going to go fallow for all new corals (I have fish in my coral QTs to make fish waste for the corals), inverts and everything else, I have no chance at eradication.

I think you are on to something. When my tanks were more stable (before hurricane Ida) I didn't have nearly as much problem with fish. It's just really hard to determine when that point actually begins in your tank.

 

[Tamberav]

To redirect a bit and stay semi on task, how many of you live in areas where your LFS does a full qt?

There is one here that does. Fish are like 3x the price tho. TSM or Dr reef are cheaper. They have a separate room and full 30 days and everything.

A second does two weeks but says they are moving to 30 days soon. They also have a separate room. Right now their fish are priced well. They keep captive fish in a separate system as well.

Neither get super rare delicate fish in though. I mean like tamarin wrasses and very few Copperbands. Rarely a leopard wrasse. One does Achilles tangs and such though.

But anyone who just wants like Tangs, foxface, common wrasse and anthias, dwarf angels, gobies, etc… they have them.

They both will give a tour of the QT room and tell you what meds are where and how they QT.

I buy from a different cheap place that doesn’t QT cuz they get all the rare stuff Once and awhile I buy from the two week QT place when I need something common (I QT myself anyways).