Tropic Marin All for reef vs other methods?

[gman107]

I've used AFR for the last 2 years and have very good experience with it (mixed SPS/LPS 90gallon). In the last 3 months I also added kalkwasser on the side for a PH boost. Just mix to low demand and ALK can be kept relatively stable with good PH boost (well in my experience the boost in PH will increase growth so ALK consumption goes up and is covered nicely by the kalk)

Tank rarely sees waterchanges (perhaps 2 smaller ones per year)

Just curious what were your dosing numbers for the all for reef and the kalk, wondering how you split it up.

 

[Superlightman]

I went back to kalkwasser and the balling method. With kalk and all for reef my calcium went over 500.

I’m also much more focused on PH these days. Soda ash increases PH and all for reef slightly lowers it.

The high calcium issue is from mixing kalk and carbo calcium. Dosing kalk at night really kicks off SPS growth, I wouldn’t give that up!

That can be fixed easily you just have to check the calcium when you dose it, instead of the alkalinity .

 

[Superlightman]

What is interesting me is if sensitive SPS same as echinata ice fire.. Could be keeped with it. I ask because for example Glenn from dsr sell different products and one is like all for reef and he said it works great for most corals but not some very sensitive as echinata ice fire

 

[Pico_Reefs]

How high did calcium get?

Mid 500's.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Mid 500's.

Slowly rising calcium is a side effect of using AFR or kalkwasser to maintain alk. It doesn’t mean, and it is unlikely to be true, that your tank uses “way more alk than calcium”.

The only way that happens, aside from water changes with a low alk high calcium salt mix is if nitrate is rising fast or being removed with a sulfur denitrator.

 

[Pico_Reefs]

Slowly rising calcium is a side effect of using AFR or kalkwasser to maintain alk. It doesn’t mean, and it is unlikely to be true, that your tank uses “way more alk than calcium”.

The only way that happens, aside from water changes with a low alk high calcium salt mix is if nitrate is rising fast or being removed with a sulfur denitrator.

That was just an assumption solely based on how the numbers move. I have since tried to focus on keeping the cal stable and adjusting for alk with dosing.

What would be considered rising fast?

I do weekly water changes, and I have high nitrates. They drop to about 12-14ppm after water changes and climb to about 20 over the week.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That was just an assumption solely based on how the numbers move. I have since tried to focus on keeping the cal stable and adjusting for alk with dosing.

What would be considered rising fast?

I do weekly water changes, and I have high nitrates. They drop to about 12-14ppm after water changes and climb to about 20 over the week.

Accumulation of 8 ppm nitrate depletes 0.37 ppm of alk.

 

[rishma]

That was just an assumption solely based on how the numbers move. I have since tried to focus on keeping the cal stable and adjusting for alk with dosing.

What would be considered rising fast?

I do weekly water changes, and I have high nitrates. They drop to about 12-14ppm after water changes and climb to about 20 over the week.

For coral health, I observe that keeping alkalinity reasonably stable is much more important than calcium being stable. I’ve had calcium up to 600 ppm and did not notice any impact on my corals. The corals also seemed unaffected when I got calcium down and stable around 425. I concluded it didn’t matter much.

Being a kalkwasser user for decades and an AFR user for years now, raising calcium has always been true for me for the reasons Randy states. It’s normal, expected, and generally not a problem. I dose solely based on alkalinity demand.

To put in perspective, I maybe test calcium once or twice a year and test alkalinity at least weekly and sometimes daily when I’m changing something.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What is interesting me is if sensitive SPS same as echinata ice fire.. Could be keeped with it. I ask because for example Glenn from dsr sell different products and one is like all for reef and he said it works great for most corals but not some very sensitive as echinata ice fire

I've never heard of any coral that could not be kept using AFR, and would be surprised if there was, assuming the remainder of the system was appropriate and doses were appropriate. The same goes for nearly all calcium and alk dosing methods. One just has to use them appropriately.

 

[Superlightman]

I've never heard of any coral that could not be kept using AFR, and would be surprised if there was, assuming the remainder of the system was appropriate and doses were appropriate. The same goes for nearly all calcium and alk dosing methods. One just has to use them appropriately.

he said it was because of the carbon, some corals seem to be very carbon sensitive when other loves it.But i'm not sure if it was calcium format or acetate? He said also that is true with vinegar dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

he said it was because of the carbon, some corals seem to be very carbon sensitive when other loves it.But i'm not sure if it was calcium format or acetate? He said also that is true with vinegar dosing.

I’ve never seen any reported issue like that for AFR.

 

[Superlightman]

I’ve never seen any reported issue like that for AFR.

yes , but probably also nobody did this kind of experience , so we don't know

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

yes , but probably also nobody did this kind of experience , so we don't know

AFR use is quite widespread, including SPS tanks, but it may be true that few AFR users keep a specific coral you are interested in.

 

[BryanM]

For coral health, I observe that keeping alkalinity reasonably stable is much more important than calcium being stable. I’ve had calcium up to 600 ppm and did not notice any impact on my corals. The corals also seemed unaffected when I got calcium down and stable around 425. I concluded it didn’t matter much.

Being a kalkwasser user for decades and an AFR user for years now, raising calcium has always been true for me for the reasons Randy states. It’s normal, expected, and generally not a problem. I dose solely based on alkalinity demand.

To put in perspective, I maybe test calcium once or twice a year and test alkalinity at least weekly and sometimes daily when I’m changing something.

I talk with a fellow member here a lot, and through him I also came to the belief that maintaining a stable Alk was very, very high on the priority list. To that end I bought a KH Guardian to automate testing and dosing (I dose AFR). Interestingly enough my mag is getting kind of high (1500), but I need to start testing this more frequently for a while to see if it was just an anomoly, or if its stable at that rate, or continuing to climb.

 

[rishma]

I talk with a fellow member here a lot, and through him I also came to the belief that maintaining a stable Alk was very, very high on the priority list. To that end I bought a KH Guardian to automate testing and dosing (I dose AFR). Interestingly enough my mag is getting kind of high (1500), but I need to start testing this more frequently for a while to see if it was just an anomoly, or if its stable at that rate, or continuing to climb.

The only time I test magnesium is when I get an occasional ICP. Magnesium test kits are frequently inaccurate. I find AFRs magnesium dose to be appropriate. If you are not dosing additional Mg, I’d suggest it’s either an issue with your salt mix or an inaccurate test.

My focus on stable alkalinity came from days of keeping SPS in a low nutrient system. I could definitely see the benefit in the corals in that tank. I honestly think it doesn’t matter as much in my current system but since I learned to keep it stable without much effort I just keep doing it.

 

[BryanM]

The only time I test magnesium is when I get an occasional ICP. Magnesium test kits are frequently inaccurate. I find AFRs magnesium dose to be appropriate. If you are not dosing additional Mg, I’d suggest it’s either an issue with your salt mix or an inaccurate test.

My focus on stable alkalinity came from days of keeping SPS in a low nutrient system. I could definitely see the benefit in the corals in that tank. I honestly think it doesn’t matter as much in my current system but since I learned to keep it stable without much effort I just keep doing it.

I switched from RedSea Coral Pro to Tropic Marin Pro Reef, so I'm assuming its not a salt thing.

I just know from reading that I'm on the high end, if that test is right, and really high mag levels apparently are actually problematic. So hopefully a few more tests will show that it is stable and not rising, and I'll be mentally happy.

 

[rishma]

I switched from RedSea Coral Pro to Tropic Marin Pro Reef, so I'm assuming its not a salt thing.

I just know from reading that I'm on the high end, if that test is right, and really high mag levels apparently are actually problematic. So hopefully a few more tests will show that it is stable and not rising, and I'll be mentally happy.

Agree those salts are likely good. I personally would not trust the test results if it s a home kit. Maybe consider performing 2 back-to-back tests of your freshly mixed salt water and see if your test kit gives a repeatable result in the expected range. That’s would be an indication if your test kit results are reasonable.