What is your Most desired fish if Hawaii Ban is lifted?
- Thread starter vetteguy53081
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Seansea
Valuable Member
Since we are dreaming this guy. Hawaiin christmas wrasse. Saw a bunch of these recently in hawaii. Insane coloration. My tank is too small and definatly not reef safe but man are they cool.
buruskeee
Well-Known Member
Biota breeds all types of fish, same thing applies, why do you assume they need perpetual supply of wild fish instead of using their own spawns to breed? That $165 fish came down from higher prices as their breeding has gotten better, but facilities, consumables, etc still are priced into their pricing. As their supply andand processes get better, so do their prices.
Have you even been to their store? I’d assume no since you assume all their fish are $500. They have lots of fish that start at $30 because guess what - they’re much easier to breed - do you not remember how much designer clowns were before they became trivial to breed?
Go and hate biota, or any other captive breeding company - but at least figure out what’s accurate before typing it like it’s truth.
buruskeee
Well-Known Member
I don’t care whether biota goes bankrupt or succeeds lol - but maybe go back and read why people like me had to jump in - because of ignorance statements that needed correcting.
Solo McReefer
Valuable Member
Second part,
Because I assume they are trying to breed other higher priced fish that are not captive bred, right now. Obviously, they need wild stock for this. As evidenced by, no one is breeding them right now
First part,
I don't
I'm not here to argue with you. I am saying they have the market cornered on yellow tangs. And I don't think they are satisfied with just that, I wouldn't be if I were in that business
If the commies in Hawaii ever let yellow tangs out again, Biota will have to adjust their prices downward(they know this). I don't think they are resting on their laurals, as fresh and fine as they are right now
The other livestock they sell are relatively competitive in pricing. If they can breed some $1000 dollars fish, they will sell it at $1100(or whatever). And have none of the issues necessitated by wild caught fish and importation.
People will pay a premium for their animals, not just because of the hippie notion that it's "good", but because they are disease free, hardy, clean, and healthy
buruskeee
Well-Known Member
$165 is probably $40 more than what the wild fish would cost today. Look at Blue Regal Tangs, they were also the same $20-30 of 15 years ago the Yellow Tangs were. Now they’re $120 wild caught everywhere.
I’m not aware of a shortage or ban on other tangs causing the prices to go over $100. The dollar has lost half its value in the last 15 years when combined with the costs of energy/fuel sky rocketing.
This is true but I think the point your missing is a small group of wild collected fish to produce thousands of offspring. Also helps with genetic diversity, bottlenecking, and additional research.
I usually only respond in forums when we're mentioned and try not to stray into commenting elsewhere. I'm happy to answer questions or comments directed at us/about us especially with so much misinformation, redirection, accusations, and others found in forums might as well get the information directly from the horse's mouth.
Happy to react to customers in this forum promoting what we do and saying great things about us while also correcting some of negative experiences or comments.
It's always interesting to me when you look at the pricing of designer vs common clownfish being so far apart while the process is the same regardless of pattern. We do breed a range of easy to breed (gobies, damsels, ect. ) and hard to breed (tang, angels, perch) and the pricing reflects that.
That's not really how our pricing works. Much of our pricing is based on the cost of production. Prior to the closure we were selling yellow tang at this similar pricing and never raised the pricing to gouge the hobbyist, in fact we stopped selling to companies that did, and we haven't changed the pricing in years despite inflation rate (if we matched inflation the tang should be ~$180).
The issue with $1000 fish is the market is low so for that price point and usually for that species. Your LFS is selling a much higher quantity of fish in the $30-100 range than the $1000+ fish. There's also species that we have bred but when comparing the production cost with the wild caught pricing there wouldn't be a market.
Baby Damsel 219
Active Member
Yellow tang
areefer01
2500 Club Member
This is a poor choice of words. Frustration or not, bad taste.
Take a look at the Cuban Basslet if you want to get an idea of competitive pricing and market availability. US embargo animal demanded a 4 figure USD price. Today one can be hand for $600.
Respecting fellow hobbyist opinions and viewpoints the small business of captive breeding or raising fish isn't out to stick it to us. Small business mixed in with a herculean task of bringing some fish to market. If it was easy more would be doing it. I think that is telling in of itself.
The question that needs to be asked is why is this a hostile conversation to begin with. Instead of wasting energy between opposing parties and viewpoints work together and make it better. Compromise and support one another. That way everyone wins.
No disrespect but you have used a couple words that can be viewed as hostile. I get your point though.
areefer01
2500 Club Member
Unless both sides work through their respected differences you both will lose.
I will say this though based on reading some of your posts, and if I had a vote, I would say keep the ban in place. Before you hit reply I admit I only see what is here and have little to no vested interest nor am trying to earn a living on it. So I understand your frustration and anger on the subject. My point, if any that I am failing to articulate, is to provide a friendly reminder how your posts may come across to an outsider. The good news is that I do not vote and when I do I at least do my homework and leave emotions out of it. Hopefully this makes sense.
Hope your day is well.
I'm not trying to cause any animosity towards any company or industry. I've never denegrated sustainable wild collection in fact in podcasts, questions, and emails I've always stated sustainable wild collection is incredibly important because breeding has it's shortcomings. I've referenced specific species like moorish idols and similar species with long larval periods where it's not economically feasible to breed them and in those cases sustainable collection is necessary. That would be a case for this fishery specifically for various species of wrasse that have difficult larval rearing.
If you go through any of my comments through out this and other threads it's primarily discussing the quality of our animals, cost, or liking comments those saying they're happy with the products they recieved from us. I have no control over what others say and I've frequently participated in threads correcting notions to ensure that doesn't happen based on false information.
I've never commented on anything regarding BLNR hearings or personally put through any public comments on any of the hearings because I know it is not my place. I am fully aware and understand that should be up to native Hawaiians on how their resources should be used, not a special outside interest, we hold no associations to anyone participating in this. Nor am I going to pretend to know why any legitimate scientific permit would be denied, that's nothing to do with us. Other companies have bred yellow tang like Kamihata in Japan and others are working on it like public aquariums and private companies the the EU. Historically we have kept blinders on in regards to political changes, that was with Bali closures, possible Bangaii bans, or the latest possible tridacna ban, all impact us negatively but it is not our place to dictate only to adapt to the changing global landscape.
Again we breed fish and research larviculture protocols and larval development, and as I mentioned before if it were to open we're still going to breed fish as we did before and as we would after. Apologies if any of my comments came off as attacking any specific industry but I mostly am present on this forum to ensure hobbyists are aware of our products and ensure customers are happy with our products. Feel free to give me a call to discuss or educate me differently, I'm always happy to learn and understand better and mentioned that last time when I received a call regarding this but haven't been taken up on that yet.
Hawaii hobbyist
Active Member
Yes let’s chat
It was great speaking with you. I truly appreciate the information and conversation as well as your perspective on the fishery.
buruskeee
Well-Known Member
Why are wild caught Blue regal/hippos similarly priced as CB? Also why are they over $100 when they used to be $20 fifteen years ago and $60 5-10 years ago? If the ban was lifted, they wouldn’t be under $100, I can promise you that (as evident of all tangs that aren’t banned which are still over $100).
Hawaii hobbyist
Active Member
very reasonable and likely
buruskeee
Well-Known Member
All of the LFS here in CA, along with pretty much any online retailer you can search up, has them at $90-120 for a juvie (Harry’s Marine is $80 for a tiny one - best price I’ve found anywhere in CA).
Your LFS out there might just be selling at cost. Lucky you.
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