What is your Most desired fish if Hawaii Ban is lifted?

[OrionN]

I have seen WC yellow tangs that are paled sickly deformed adult Yellow tang all the time due to the poor care they are getting. IMO, when we see poor color adult yellow tangs, it is due to their current care, not due to their orgin.

 

[Biota_Marine]

So are you saying Biota sent me wild caught Yellow Tangs when I ordered directly on their site and paid them $165 each plus shipping? That’s some crazy conspiracy dude. Do you also think the earth is flat?

FYI, mine were the smallest they sell, so they also came originally semi transparent (as is the case for very young juveniles in the ocean you would never see because they never catch them that small). Their first few batches had HLLE problems, yes, but as they kept developing their process, they’ve perfected breeding them. Their last 2 years of yellow tang batches have been perfect specimens.

But keep thinking you know more about the actual fish than everyone who actually owns them and keep being mad at the world for whatever reason. You must be really fun at parties. Just simply never purchase from Biota and keep it moving. I’m sure you love pot stirring.. too bad this time it completely back fired on you.

Thank you for your purchase and supporting aquaculture!

 

[areefer01]

$900…

 

[areefer01]

You should probably just stop saying. You know what they say about assuming. I’m far from angry.

Come on, I saw you stop your foot with folded arms...

Teasing of course.

It’s ok to have a discussion about Hawaiian fish and how the tank raised aren’t nearly as good as the wild.

You are 100% correct and I agree. It is OK. I think the part some are squinting over is the part about captive not being "as nearly good" as the wild. Without proof. Plenty of opinions but little to no proof.

This is not directed at you. Just my observation as we all talk about this. You have to admit as we read through the posts people are saying they want yellow tangs, potters angels, and both are readily available today. Well not the Potters - that is in limited batches.

Anyway I think you get the idea. I agree with you on the discussion. Hope your day is well.

 

[braaap]

You fooled me.
@buruskeee got you with post #179. We all know this including you.

Oh ya. He soooo got me. I too can take a picture of a yellow tang and post it.

See what I did there? Go search the forums. Most people agree that wild look better than tank bred. Especially in the “I don’t get yellow tangs” thread.

 

[braaap]

Come on, I saw you stop your foot with folded arms...

Teasing of course.



You are 100% correct and I agree. It is OK. I think the part some are squinting over is the part about captive not being "as nearly good" as the wild. Without proof. Plenty of opinions but little to no proof.

This is not directed at you. Just my observation as we all talk about this. You have to admit as we read through the posts people are saying they want yellow tangs, potters angels, and both are readily available today. Well not the Potters - that is in limited batches.

Anyway I think you get the idea. I agree with you on the discussion. Hope your day is well.

There is lots of proof. Coloring is poor. Health has been reported as poor. HLLE is quite common.

Are they a great addition to the hobby? Absolutely. But I guarantee once the wilds come back sales of these tank raised are going to virtually cease. Yes cost is a factor. But is $165 really a lot in this hobby? No. Most people I’ve talked to said the health and coloration is why they prefer wild caught.

Either way I’m done on this thread. I’ve proven my statements by stating experience and pointing to other threads including this one with similar thoughts. Others just post pictures. I can’t be bothered with that anymore.

 

[Biota_Marine]

There is lots of proof. Coloring is poor. Health has been reported as poor. HLLE is quite common.

Are they a great addition to the hobby? Absolutely. But I guarantee once the wilds come back sales of these tank raised are going to virtually cease. Yes cost is a factor. But is $165 really a lot in this hobby? No. Most people I’ve talked to said the health and coloration is why they prefer wild caught.

Either way I’m done on this thread. I’ve proven my statements by stating experience and pointing to other threads including this one with similar thoughts. Others just post pictures. I can’t be bothered with that anymore.

There's dozens of people in this discussion with proof of the alternative, if you choose not to believe them for an alternative narrative that's not going to make it more correct. We've seen tens of thousands of them go into both home and public aquariums globally with incredible results. I receive daily emails of customers who originally were put off because of comments like these applauding us for our efforts and watching the change to bright yellow coloration. We post examples of it every single week on our social pages. Under proper care and feeding they're just like their wild counterparts.

The reason why people suggest health and coloration is the factor is because they are constantly told that's the case even when evidence for the contrary is presented to them like above. It's people who have actually purchased our products touting the success and those who actively deny it who continue to cast doubt. I've had the most stubborn hobbyists or store owners change their minds and become our best customers especially over the last few years because they gave us a shot and were happy with the results.

Additionally we were breeding them prior to the ban and selling out so there's demand for aquacultured versions of wild species regardless. This is a video of exact fish we ship out. They're shipped out healthy, eating diverse prepared diets, and painstakingly cared for from egg to sellable size.

 

[buruskeee]

Oh ya. He soooo got me. I too can take a picture of a yellow tang and post it.

See what I did there? Go search the forums. Most people agree that wild look better than tank bred. Especially in the “I don’t get yellow tangs” thread.

Except you’re the only one posting other people’s pictures. When I post my own pictures, you claim it’s not real. This is the problem. We can have a conversation but once you start speaking over others and disqualifying someone’s own personal evidence, it becomes nothing more than you being an arrogant troll.

I’ve proven my statements by stating experience and pointing to other threads including this one with similar thoughts. Others just post pictures. I can’t be bothered with that anymore.

So your 3rd person experiences are more valid that my actual 1st hand experience (along with others who HAVE THE LITERAL SPECIMENS) photos from my own tank of my own fish? In terms of ranking valid evidence, I’m not sure how you’re ranking your “assumptions” over my actual “results”.

But again, have anything to say about my own pictures? Do you want me to take a video with me holding up a sign that says “braaap is wrong” to prove they’re my own personal pictures? I’m sorry you’re behind on information and didn’t realize that the issues with captive bred are old and no longer an issue. That doesn’t give you a green light to troll others in what should be an innocently fun thread (before your introduction to it).

 

[buruskeee]

I've had the most stubborn hobbyists or store owners change their minds and become our best customers especially over the last few years because they gave us a shot and were happy with the results.

This is how I’d describe my experience. I was very reluctant and refused to buy a Biota yellow tang because I’ve read all the issues (although they were always older posts). Had a local reefer show me her recent addition at that time (a year ago) and so I pulled the trigger since wild caught from tank breakdowns were just way too pricey. This has turned me into a huge supporter because I cannot tell the difference in grazing behavior nor aesthetics if anything, I feel mine are more vibrant (most likely due to the healthy diet I supply to all my fish which are all very vibrant).

It irks me when people post ignorant comments instead of informed ones. If you do not have first hand experience, then don’t comment like you have certainty about it.

 

[TheWhiteFord]

All I want is a male crosshatch trigger

 

[SimbaAnto]

There's dozens of people in this discussion with proof of the alternative, if you choose not to believe them for an alternative narrative that's not going to make it more correct. We've seen tens of thousands of them go into both home and public aquariums globally with incredible results. I receive daily emails of customers who originally were put off because of comments like these applauding us for our efforts and watching the change to bright yellow coloration. We post examples of it every single week on our social pages. Under proper care and feeding they're just like their wild counterparts.

The reason why people suggest health and coloration is the factor is because they are constantly told that's the case even when evidence for the contrary is presented to them like above. It's people who have actually purchased our products touting the success and those who actively deny it who continue to cast doubt. I've had the most stubborn hobbyists or store owners change their minds and become our best customers especially over the last few years because they gave us a shot and were happy with the results.

Additionally we were breeding them prior to the ban and selling out so there's demand for aquacultured versions of wild species regardless. This is a video of exact fish we ship out. They're shipped out healthy, eating diverse prepared diets, and painstakingly cared for from egg to sellable size.

I am avid lover of this fish. After moving and taking my tank down, couldnt get a wild caught. I am waiting like many to get a wild. But i am interested to get an AquaCultured. But i have a question. Why wouldn't you sell the Yellow tang at the mature stage which has more coloration and sell at this stage where its transparent.

Is it the operating cost a reason to sell at the early stage? Just wondering why its not sold as an Adult. This may help removing the notion about the coloration etc right?

 

[SmokeyMcNoddin]

Moana for sure !! LOL

 

[SmokeyMcNoddin]

Three fish for me, in order:

1) Golden Dwarf Moray
2) Potter's Angel
3) Chevron Tang

Due to how they reproduce, I doubt that we'll ever have captive-bred eels, so wild-caught is the only option there... and I do want a golden dwarf someday, it's on top of my list of dream fish.

Potter's is another that's on my dream list, but there are captive-bred available... just stupidly expensive. =) Wild-caught Potter angels would put pricing pressure on CB, and both should stabilize at a lower price.

Chevron tangs are also really neat, but there are other gorgeous tangs out there, so I wouldn't be too put-out if I never get to own one.

Wow never heard of a dwarf moray . I’m intrigued; will be looking into these !!

 

[areefer01]

But i have a question. Why wouldn't you sell the Yellow tang at the mature stage which has more coloration and sell at this stage where its transparent.

Time and money. It more than likely comes down to production. Keeping them on site would require additional space more than likely or delaying other animals not to mention more food, larger (possible) shipping bags, more water weight, etc. They found a good size to ship reliably and meet those production needs. The fish colors up. Hobbyist get to enjoy a fish maturing / growing.

There really is no issue here other than some hobbyist prefer A over B. The one thing I learned after 192 posts is that neither side is going to change the others mind.

 

[ieatbugman]

Am i mistaken on the fact that the Hawaiian cleaner wrasse is extremely (to impossible) to feed? Just curious because those things are beautiful

 

[VDC]

I just want one yellow tang that isn’t a teeny tiny baby and isn’t $1,000!

They are 80$ at my LFS

 

[Biota_Marine]

I am avid lover of this fish. After moving and taking my tank down, couldnt get a wild caught. I am waiting like many to get a wild. But i am interested to get an AquaCultured. But i have a question. Why wouldn't you sell the Yellow tang at the mature stage which has more coloration and sell at this stage where its transparent.

Is it the operating cost a reason to sell at the early stage? Just wondering why its not sold as an Adult. This may help removing the notion about the coloration etc right?

We did add two options on the site of the 1.25" sizing and 2" sizing to help with this perception but extra months of grow-out is super expensive and the vast majority of customers prefer the smaller cheaper option to grow out themselves.

 

[wolfcaroling]

There are a lot of moral and ethical assumptions going into your response that show that you subscribe to a moral framework that I do not.

This is such an amazing way of putting this. *chef's kiss* perfect.

While I am firmly in the other camp regarding this particular issue, I think this is such a great way of disagreeing with someone.

 

[TardWrangler]

Where is this coming from?

I don't think Biota or anyone else has said anything to the contrary. Some of us prefer not to remove wild animals from the wild for our own entertainment, but that's a decision we make. There are so many upsides to captive breeding, and really the only downside is that individuals must be willing to pay a bit more (for now).

Using deer as an example is not a fair comparison, as deer overpopulate regions and become pests, while our decorative fish (outside of Lions and a few select others) are not needing intervention due to them becoming pests in their environment. Animals don't exist so you can harvest them, and comparing species that require control or are being used for food, with species that are being captured for a luxury hobby is not a good comparison.

Deer are an apt comparison…why wouldn’t they be? You say they’re overpopulating and that may be true but why wouldn’t that be possible in any natural system? Are you suggesting that these imbalances ONLY occur with deer?? Lol. You know nothing about coral reef fish or ecology. They’re designed to reproduce so prolifically they’ll make a white tail deer envious. These reef fish come in by scores of millions and are constantly in flux as they’re at the bottom of the food chain. You say these fish aren’t there for us to harvest but to me that’s a fringe and radical position…you do realize that,correct? Tell that to the islanders that don’t have many abundant resources to sustain themselves but they have reef fish out the wazoo. Most people don’t agree that fish aren’t there to be taken. The science is clear, whether taken for food or for aquariums, this can and are sustainably managed.Anything to the contrary is driven by Ill informed do gooders or people trying to attack fisheries for their own personal gain

 

[Northern Flicker]

Deer are an apt comparison…why wouldn’t they be? You say they’re overpopulating and that may be true but why wouldn’t that be possible in any natural system? Are you suggesting that these imbalances ONLY occur with deer?? Lol. You know nothing about coral reef fish or ecology. They’re designed to reproduce so prolifically they’ll make a white tail deer envious. These reef fish come in by scores of millions and are constantly in flux as they’re at the bottom of the food chain. You say these fish aren’t there for us to harvest but to me that’s a fringe and radical position…you do realize that,correct? Tell that to the islanders that don’t have many abundant resources to sustain themselves but they have reef fish out the wazoo. Most people don’t agree that fish aren’t there to be taken. The science is clear, whether taken for food or for aquariums, this can and are sustainably managed.Anything to the contrary is driven by Ill informed do gooders or people trying to attack fisheries for their own personal gain

Could you supply sources which show that Tang population is causing huge habitat destruction in the same vein as deer? Deer require population control not because they breed quickly (many animals do this), but because they become huge pests and detrimental to their own ecosystems.

You said the science is clear - so show it. Show how deer overpopulation and the downsides this cause correlates directly to wild caught fish.

Also, please refrain from putting words into other people's mouths. If you can't make an argument honestly and without these tactics, you may want to reconsider the argument.